Herkflyr

That was a super recap of those days--spot on. When I was hired, the 1996 contract only stated that RJs were limited to 70 seats or less--literally ZERO restrictions on the number of planes! That was an epic scope "fail" right out of the box...only DALPA didn't realize it at the time. Trying to harness the genie after that precedent has been a constant struggle.

Add all the other issues you highlighted, as well as the fact that our corporate GOAL was to cancel about a dozen flights a day (because some revenue "genius" determined that if we had a published timetable that required more metal than we owned, think of all the extra revenue we could generate!...didn't work) and DAL ran a pretty crappy operation in the mid to late 90s.

Mesabah

The APA realized it, fought it at the NMB, and won.

flyallnite

That's largely because until a few years ago (I'd argue it started when Jerry Grinstein took over), we weren't concerned about the product. Making money in the airline industry was done by breaking up companies and selling them, or mergers. We tried both. Several times. Lucky for us, we failed miserably.

The people running Delta now clearly see that it's a money making business, we have a limited oligopoly, and it's golden as long as we don't mess it up.

I see threats though. There is a strong social justice theme being pushed by the company, which is highly political. That's a risk. We are going all in on JV flying, to the point at which it's out of compliance with the pilot working agreement. That's a risk too. There is a rift between mgmt and pilots that is growing at the moment, one that risks upsetting the current atmosphere of doing what it takes to get the job done well. I think there is arrogance and intransigence on both sides to blame for that. That's a risk.

LGA... what can you say. Maybe with the physical infrastructure improvements, and NextGen, it can be a more reliable cog in the machine. We are lucky to be where we are there and need to keep our position strong. Previous mgmt made the mistake of destroying our shuttle product there, which once produced enormous profits. Amtrak had nothing to do with its demise, despite the newspeak. Mgmt mistakes continue to be a risk.

flyallnite

Are you talking about the APA that walked around with green SCOPE badges in the mid 90's, taking the no RJ position, only to cave after the PEB? Unlike DALPA, APA actually had a prohibition against RJ's, which they did indeed sell. Those of us who rode the 'B' scale can thank APA for that little gem too. APA was the first to take the massive pay hit, voluntarily, after 9-11. That set the stage for our first huge giveback to the company, after which they took more, then our pension. APA has been no friend to the careers of Delta Pilots.

Mesabah

The PEB can be read here http://storage.googleapis.com/nmb-ks...rch%201997.pdf
The give backs started way before 9-11, it had been a constant race to the bottom post deregulation. I never understood the animosity towards each other, as every pilot group/union was in the business of making their airline the most competitive. If everyone is afraid to go out of business, while they race each other, they eventually all reach rock bottom.



So to answer the question posed above in this thread, yes scope was sold, for a promise of a better tomorrow, that never came. It got so bad, the market decided to correct the pain.

OldFlyGuy

Oh yeah. No friends at APA not IMO. As for the rest of this thread. Congrats to improving regional contracts: long overdue. Congrats if you are coming to mainline carriers. I hope the good times last. We can rehash history a hundred ways. When all this was transpiring there really wasn't much 50-70 seat flying but a lot of cities wanted service. For some reason pax thought a jet was "better." Silly solution 50 seat performance limited jets. Then Massive cuts before BK followed by BK and 1113: mainline was a Total mess with survival the overriding concern. IF we had kept all the 50-70 seat flying on mainline at decent rates (mgmt wouldn't bite) there might have been far fewer of those jobs: that's a two edged sword. I don't think DALPA recognized how aggressively management intended to expand use of the small jets. DAL mgmt eventually went nuts with their "self-financing" strategy putting 7 RJ flights a day into places with zero mainline. When 50 seat markets grew to need 70-100 seats they realized they had purchased a 20 year airframe solution (50 seaters) for a 10 year market problem and had a brazillion jets they didn't want. What to do? Whipsaw the crap out of us and get us to contractually fix their problem while thinking we were helping ourselves! ALPA national should have drawn a line in the sand on RJ negotiations long ago: it wasn't their job to create a pay/benefit package that fit under a fee for departure cram down limitation. Maybe every regional group should have walked AND all the mainline pilots should have supported it with actual $$! The real takeaway is management played us pretty well: Never imagine they won't try it again. Too much caffeine.. OFG

Speed Select

What’s with the AFA pin I saw on a FA’s lapel? Did I miss something?

iaflyer

I have *never* ever, heard another pilot at this company, or posting here complain about a raise that the FAs, mechanics or anyone has gotten. That's in 10 years of being here. The closest I've heard is that when the FAs got a 14.5% raise, was, "good, that sets a baseline of what we should get in our next TA"

TurbineDriver

Random question does anybody know if we can book a Jumpseat on Delta connection? Ie compass Skywest etc?

Scoop

No. Mainline Pilots can not book a JS on DCI.

Scoop