Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
09-20-2017, 10:43 AM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
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09-20-2017, 10:49 AM
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How is it with all this non pilot expertise....who have this undistracted religious affiliation with spreadsheets and financials...particularly in light of the 1996 management default of their pension obligations....miss entirely the burning disaster of alpa pilot pension?
As for stock fails....after the locked up esop 72/share...converted to common...and then passive reaction to its evaporation to nothing.....galactic fail... maybe the pilot experts thought it better to not play stock manipulators a second time.
As for stock fails....after the locked up esop 72/share...converted to common...and then passive reaction to its evaporation to nothing.....galactic fail... maybe the pilot experts thought it better to not play stock manipulators a second time.
What will never be known is whether it kept us (Delta) from being bought in a leveraged buy out. The concept grew out of Trump's run on AMR. Icahn already had TWA, Lorenzo was still lurking, and NWA Checchi and Wilson. The plan was for 15% the voting stock to be controlled by a stable group who would have the company's best long term interest in mind: the employees. 15% is (was) the threshold to block a hostile takeover.
Of course we already RA!
09-20-2017, 11:04 AM
Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
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Posts: 6,992
I'm pretty sure we already have professional negotiators:
1) A host of full-time non-pilot DALPA and ALPA national labor attorneys that vet and assist in every part of negotiations that also have knowledge and experience of other ALPA airline negotiations. Many of these people have been doing this job for decades.
2) Outside-ALPA legal counsel attorneys that help with negotiations. They are experts in areas like scope, retirement, and sick leave.
3) ALPA national economic and financial analysis subject matter experts that vet and assist in negotiations. They don't fly planes - they analyze and spreadsheet all day. They are truly remarkable experts.
4) 4 full-time elected pilots that get to quarterback the process. They agonize over every detail of the contract with no other distraction or side business or responsibility. (Their counter parts on the company side do labor negotiations in addition to host of other duties.)
5) A 30 or so member board of pilots (MEC) that also guide and direct the process of negotiations.
Are you proposing to dump all 5 parts for a slick set of Philadelphia lawyers that "promise better returns?"
I remember we tried this once with a stock broker company that was going to optimize the sell of our merger stock so we didn't get hosed. These "experts" took our $12 stock and gave it back to us around $4-5 IIRC.
I'm skeptical we could find "professional negotiators" that 14,000+ pilots would like better than status quo.
1) A host of full-time non-pilot DALPA and ALPA national labor attorneys that vet and assist in every part of negotiations that also have knowledge and experience of other ALPA airline negotiations. Many of these people have been doing this job for decades.
2) Outside-ALPA legal counsel attorneys that help with negotiations. They are experts in areas like scope, retirement, and sick leave.
3) ALPA national economic and financial analysis subject matter experts that vet and assist in negotiations. They don't fly planes - they analyze and spreadsheet all day. They are truly remarkable experts.
4) 4 full-time elected pilots that get to quarterback the process. They agonize over every detail of the contract with no other distraction or side business or responsibility. (Their counter parts on the company side do labor negotiations in addition to host of other duties.)
5) A 30 or so member board of pilots (MEC) that also guide and direct the process of negotiations.
Are you proposing to dump all 5 parts for a slick set of Philadelphia lawyers that "promise better returns?"
I remember we tried this once with a stock broker company that was going to optimize the sell of our merger stock so we didn't get hosed. These "experts" took our $12 stock and gave it back to us around $4-5 IIRC.
I'm skeptical we could find "professional negotiators" that 14,000+ pilots would like better than status quo.
You do realize the above support group is who recommended we accept TA-15! They failed miserably and we only averted that because the Pilot group apparently knew better than them.
In any case I am not talking about "support" I am referencing professional hired gun labor negotiators.
Scoop
09-20-2017, 12:01 PM
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Joined APC: Sep 2015
Position: I got into this business so I wouldn't have to work.
Posts: 1,034
I'm pretty sure we already have professional negotiators:
1) A host of full-time non-pilot DALPA and ALPA national labor attorneys that vet and assist in every part of negotiations that also have knowledge and experience of other ALPA airline negotiations. Many of these people have been doing this job for decades.
2) Outside-ALPA legal counsel attorneys that help with negotiations. They are experts in areas like scope, retirement, and sick leave.
3) ALPA national economic and financial analysis subject matter experts that vet and assist in negotiations. They don't fly planes - they analyze and spreadsheet all day. They are truly remarkable experts.
4) 4 full-time elected pilots that get to quarterback the process. They agonize over every detail of the contract with no other distraction or side business or responsibility. (Their counter parts on the company side do labor negotiations in addition to host of other duties.)
5) A 30 or so member board of pilots (MEC) that also guide and direct the process of negotiations.
Are you proposing to dump all 5 parts for a slick set of Philadelphia lawyers that "promise better returns?"
I remember we tried this once with a stock broker company that was going to optimize the sell of our merger stock so we didn't get hosed. These "experts" took our $12 stock and gave it back to us around $4-5 IIRC.
I'm skeptical we could find "professional negotiators" that 14,000+ pilots would like better than status quo.
1) A host of full-time non-pilot DALPA and ALPA national labor attorneys that vet and assist in every part of negotiations that also have knowledge and experience of other ALPA airline negotiations. Many of these people have been doing this job for decades.
2) Outside-ALPA legal counsel attorneys that help with negotiations. They are experts in areas like scope, retirement, and sick leave.
3) ALPA national economic and financial analysis subject matter experts that vet and assist in negotiations. They don't fly planes - they analyze and spreadsheet all day. They are truly remarkable experts.
4) 4 full-time elected pilots that get to quarterback the process. They agonize over every detail of the contract with no other distraction or side business or responsibility. (Their counter parts on the company side do labor negotiations in addition to host of other duties.)
5) A 30 or so member board of pilots (MEC) that also guide and direct the process of negotiations.
Are you proposing to dump all 5 parts for a slick set of Philadelphia lawyers that "promise better returns?"
I remember we tried this once with a stock broker company that was going to optimize the sell of our merger stock so we didn't get hosed. These "experts" took our $12 stock and gave it back to us around $4-5 IIRC.
I'm skeptical we could find "professional negotiators" that 14,000+ pilots would like better than status quo.
Yet this is exactly the group of "experts" that brought us POSTA15. Chant it with me..."PEB!!!!" "There IS NOTHING left on the table!!!"
How you could be "skeptical" we could find "professional negotiators" that 14,000+ pilots would like better than the status quo...
I'm thinking you'd only have to convince like 1/3 of us. The rest would like more from the next TA. And no more excuses like the ones you chanted with me above.
09-20-2017, 07:09 PM
Doing Nothing
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09-21-2017, 04:08 AM
Gets Weekends Off
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09-21-2017, 04:11 AM
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2013
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09-21-2017, 04:46 AM
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Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 519
As a comparison, united pays 3hrs a day of first year pay (90 hrs/month .... about $8k) and picks up the hotel and pays for the first round of uniforms.
Delta pays about $4700/month in training and you get to stay wherever you can afford.
09-21-2017, 04:59 AM
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Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,599
My understanding about the post is he is discussing initial qual training for pilots already at Delta.
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