scambo1

For LGA or for Open Skies?

My ststement was referring to Open skies

FlyingViking

Sorry, I did the LGA....

iaflyer

Since the US has no coherant aviation policy, the possibility of the US government doing something like this is remote. Most other countries use the government negotiators to play hardball and propose things like this - for some reason, we do not.

I'm not a big fan of Bob Crandell, but he's said much on this subject and I agree with him.

forgot to bid

Anyone else notice the NWA background on George Clooney's new movie:

Bucking Bar

Disregard -

NuGuy

Heyas,

So the question is, can we get Guard Dude back to make the 20,000th post on this thread?

Nu

nerd2009

There was a discussion on another thread regarding compensation. A reader said that his 28 yo son with 4 years as an ATC in Jax center makes 136,000. Its sad day when 12 year pilot pay is less than that of an air traffic controller with only 4 years of longevity.

scambo1

Compensation...hmmm

Not *****in just stating a fact:

When I was hired at DAL, POS '96, largely a concessionary contract, paid FO's significantly more than Military pilots, vacation was better, DB was in place, etc. every area was better by far.

Today, as a reservist LtCol, my AF takehome pay exceeds my airline takehome pay as 777 f/o. The USAF funds my retirement, medical is covered, etc.

The situation is beyond ridiculous, yet some feel compelled to defend the situation. Honestly, it is indefensible.

On the company forum some still say "okay so you want that, what are you willing to give up?" My only response is nothing...in fact I would go a step further and say if this is the pay we can expect for the personal liability (ala 188) we incur, they can have this job, it is not worth it.

After all it is just a job, not a career. 401k's are portable. If the company has to go under due to its inability to provide adequate compensation, I don't really care...that just means the business plan is flawed and it sucks to be us.

It's kind of like the girlfriend who says "we need to get married because I have XXX amount of time invested in this relationship." The fact we are completely incompatible doesn't matter to her.

Again, I'm not *****in' just sharing my perspective.

Scambo

iaflyer

It's a valid point - the military invest a lot of time and money in training a pilot, getting up to speed at a squadron, etc (I'm not military, so I'm probably missing a lot of what .mil folks do in their career).

After that happens - the pilots see a better life outside the military and leave. The solution - raise the standard of living so more people stay. They also increased the commitment for people entering flight school, I believe.

Delta (and other airlines, Delta is just the example we're talking about) apparently don't see the exeodus that the military was seeing. Also, it seems that corporate America (outside the financial world) does not see the need to increase overall compensation much.

Bucking Bar

iaFlyer,

Delta (and other airlines) have not seen an exodus yet. As far as airlines go, Delta overall is one of the top jobs in this industry to have and many of us have so specialized a skill set that changing careers is not easy.

But no one I know would pick this as a career. The schools and the military are both drying up (for different reasons). General Aviation as a hobby, which has always been the bedrock of the civilian flight schools is become less accessible, more expensive and shrinking with the same demographic trends that drive Buick sales figures.

The future of our profession can probably be seen in the Third World with ab initio training creating pilots who's careers are subject to a long term training contract. Delta, FedEx, UPS and other majors will probably not see their candidate pool dry up, but they will not have the selection they used to enjoy.