Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
09-27-2008, 04:24 PM
#1891
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: Atlas Air F/O
Posts: 112
Any news on hiring?
Any news on the hiring front for the fall? At some point in the past, someone had mentioned about 50 new hires sometime in the fall.
09-27-2008, 06:04 PM
#1892
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
A LOA on the DAL side a few weeks ago took care of that. Look for hiring in the spring after the SLI is completed. Right now the number is hovering around 100. Time will tell if this pans out.
09-27-2008, 06:06 PM
#1893
Doesn't Get Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,598
Actually, it makes more sense to have seperate categories when you have a small international operation and a large domestic operation because you only have to train a few guys to do the international stuff. As international and domestic become closer to 50/50 it becomes more cost effective to have everyone in one category. CAL has a 75/6 category that covers all the flying and even includes the 400 flying. I'd bet $50 that flight ops is looking at combining categories and I'm sure they would love to have not just the ER and domestic flying combined, but the 400 as well.
09-27-2008, 09:33 PM
#1894
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,903
Nothing in the Joint contract amends the sections I posted. There may be something in the SLI agreement however you would expect there would have been a amendment in the joint contract since quite a bit of the scope section was changed. I will see if I can find the SLI agreement later.
From the SLI Acceptance agreement, signed by the respective negotiating committee chairman (Haase & O'Malley) along with Mr. Campbell, DAL Exec VP - HR Labor & Communications
"This will confirm our agreement regarding the Company’s acceptance of the integrated seniority list produced either by agreement of the representatives of the respective pilot groups or by arbitration pursuant to ALPA Merger Policy. For the purposes of the Delta/Northwest Merger only and notwithstanding Section 1 D. 8. b. 1) of the PWA, the Company will accept the integrated seniority list established by the Association, provided that none of the conditions and restrictions therein 1) require a system flush whereby pilots may displace any other pilots from the latter’s position; 2) require a pilot to be compensated for flying not performed (e.g. differential pay for a position not flown); 3) bar a pilot who, at the time of implementation of an integrated seniority list, is in the process of completing or who has completed qualification training for a new position (e.g., B-777 Captain or A-319 First Officer) from being assigned to the position for which he has been trained, regardless of his relative standing on the integrated seniority list; or 4) significantly increase the Company's costs. Furthermore, a pilot will not be displaced from his position by a pilot of the other pre-merger pilot group solely as the result of the implementation of, or the expiration of, any condition or restriction. "
Nu
09-27-2008, 10:07 PM
#1895
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
As always sailing, you fail to do your homework:
From the SLI Acceptance agreement, signed by the respective negotiating committee chairman (Haase & O'Malley) along with Mr. Campbell, DAL Exec VP - HR Labor & Communications
"This will confirm our agreement regarding the Company’s acceptance of the integrated seniority list produced either by agreement of the representatives of the respective pilot groups or by arbitration pursuant to ALPA Merger Policy. For the purposes of the Delta/Northwest Merger only and notwithstanding Section 1 D. 8. b. 1) of the PWA, the Company will accept the integrated seniority list established by the Association, provided that none of the conditions and restrictions therein 1) require a system flush whereby pilots may displace any other pilots from the latter’s position; 2) require a pilot to be compensated for flying not performed (e.g. differential pay for a position not flown); 3) bar a pilot who, at the time of implementation of an integrated seniority list, is in the process of completing or who has completed qualification training for a new position (e.g., B-777 Captain or A-319 First Officer) from being assigned to the position for which he has been trained, regardless of his relative standing on the integrated seniority list; or 4) significantly increase the Company's costs. Furthermore, a pilot will not be displaced from his position by a pilot of the other pre-merger pilot group solely as the result of the implementation of, or the expiration of, any condition or restriction. "
Nu
From the SLI Acceptance agreement, signed by the respective negotiating committee chairman (Haase & O'Malley) along with Mr. Campbell, DAL Exec VP - HR Labor & Communications
"This will confirm our agreement regarding the Company’s acceptance of the integrated seniority list produced either by agreement of the representatives of the respective pilot groups or by arbitration pursuant to ALPA Merger Policy. For the purposes of the Delta/Northwest Merger only and notwithstanding Section 1 D. 8. b. 1) of the PWA, the Company will accept the integrated seniority list established by the Association, provided that none of the conditions and restrictions therein 1) require a system flush whereby pilots may displace any other pilots from the latter’s position; 2) require a pilot to be compensated for flying not performed (e.g. differential pay for a position not flown); 3) bar a pilot who, at the time of implementation of an integrated seniority list, is in the process of completing or who has completed qualification training for a new position (e.g., B-777 Captain or A-319 First Officer) from being assigned to the position for which he has been trained, regardless of his relative standing on the integrated seniority list; or 4) significantly increase the Company's costs. Furthermore, a pilot will not be displaced from his position by a pilot of the other pre-merger pilot group solely as the result of the implementation of, or the expiration of, any condition or restriction. "
Nu
Thanks for finding that. After reading this, I cannot imagine a seniority list without significant fences and other conditions and restrictions. How else could you possibly be in compliance with the above 4 bullet points without specifically stating them as a condition and/or restriction?
The last sentence is very interesting though, because the former Northwest Pilots (Red Book) just lost the last arbitration regarding the "No Bump - No Flush clause." The arbitrator ruled that in spite of what the award said, "No Bump - No Flush" no longer applies after expiration of the conditions and restrictions. He said that the words: "Solely as a result" trumped all the other words in the original award. Red Book pilots can now be bumped and flushed out of position by pilots from the other pre-merger group.
Carl
09-28-2008, 05:01 AM
#1896
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
And I guarantee that the only reason they singed this is because fences will increase cost significantly. That is there out trust me.
09-28-2008, 10:51 AM
#1897
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,903
Nu,
Thanks for finding that. After reading this, I cannot imagine a seniority list without significant fences and other conditions and restrictions. How else could you possibly be in compliance with the above 4 bullet points without specifically stating them as a condition and/or restriction?
The last sentence is very interesting though, because the former Northwest Pilots (Red Book) just lost the last arbitration regarding the "No Bump - No Flush clause." The arbitrator ruled that in spite of what the award said, "No Bump - No Flush" no longer applies after expiration of the conditions and restrictions. He said that the words: "Solely as a result" trumped all the other words in the original award. Red Book pilots can now be bumped and flushed out of position by pilots from the other pre-merger group.
Carl
Thanks for finding that. After reading this, I cannot imagine a seniority list without significant fences and other conditions and restrictions. How else could you possibly be in compliance with the above 4 bullet points without specifically stating them as a condition and/or restriction?
The last sentence is very interesting though, because the former Northwest Pilots (Red Book) just lost the last arbitration regarding the "No Bump - No Flush clause." The arbitrator ruled that in spite of what the award said, "No Bump - No Flush" no longer applies after expiration of the conditions and restrictions. He said that the words: "Solely as a result" trumped all the other words in the original award. Red Book pilots can now be bumped and flushed out of position by pilots from the other pre-merger group.
Carl
Yup. As a blue guy, I refuse to take sides on this. However, the red book guys were masters at selling "expectations" and making it stick. Those same people are now crafting our arbitration positions.
Even a five year fence will open up the SLI to multitudes of arbitrations, especially when in comes to "replacement aircraft". It will bring the bidding process to a complete halt.
With no fences, there will have to be compensation in some other form. I forsee a tiered solution.
Nu
09-28-2008, 11:40 AM
#1898
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Any attempt by DAL management to deny the results of the arbitration panel's award will result in massive lawsuits. DAL will be greatly disadvantaged in the lawsuits because they will be in the unenviable position of arguing to a judge that the results of a 3 judge panel should be thrown out. They would almost certainly lose, and the case will cost them a fortune.
Carl
09-28-2008, 12:47 PM
#1899
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: 757 Left
Posts: 1,308
5 year base and equipment fences would do a lot to ease the transition into this cluster. Any idea what would happen if we did get fences and the company transfered equipment or closed/opened bases? Not sure of the specifics but I think there were fences around some of the Western bases after the DL/Western merger?? Not that we're going to have any say on anything that happens but anyone have a historical perspective on the pros and cons of fences? Seems like a no-brainer to me so far.
09-28-2008, 01:03 PM
#1900
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,903
5 year base and equipment fences would do a lot to ease the transition into this cluster. Any idea what would happen if we did get fences and the company transfered equipment or closed/opened bases? Not sure of the specifics but I think there were fences around some of the Western bases after the DL/Western merger?? Not that we're going to have any say on anything that happens but anyone have a historical perspective on the pros and cons of fences? Seems like a no-brainer to me so far.
After the fence goes up, the very first new type on the property will be a "replacement aircraft". I guarentee it.
DAL gets airplane
DAL staffs airplane
The NWMC or DLMC takes it to arbitration, claiming it's a "replacement" aircraft that should be staffed from its side only.
Arbitration comes down forcing the airline to flush everyone it just trained and re-train a whole new set of pilots.
Lather, rinse, repeat...
Nu
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
