Originally Posted by Brocc15

I posted this before but no one responded so I'll try again re-wording hoping some scheduling guru can help me out. Trying to maximize my shadow day credit:

My PBS calendar shows training ending on February 9th. I know that I have a day off on February 6th. Therefore I think I should be able to bid a 3 day on the 10th, or a 4 day with 30 hours rest built in. My PBS calendar however does not show days off, does anyone know if when PBS awards are processed if it looks at my day off on the 6th?

Thanks to anyone who can answer this, I emailed alpa and they gave me a response with some generic shadow bidding guidelines and said I could bid a trip on the 10th, but didn't specifically answer my rest question.

Originally Posted by Herkflyr

First of all when you say "I know I have a day off on the 6th" what precisely do you mean? Does your Qualification Training footprint extend to the 9th? PBS doesn't care if you have a few days off within that footprint, as depicted on your calendar of different "modules." All it knows is that you are set aside for Qualification Training until the 9th.

Or....does your training footprint really only extend until the 6th, and somehow PBS shows you as training until the 9th in error? In that case you need to call the PBS Help Desk asap to clarify.

Originally Posted by Brocc15

I know that I have a day off on February 6th. Therefore I think I should be able to bid a 3 day on the 10th, or a 4 day with 30 hours rest built in.

Originally Posted by Jughead135

I think [I do not "know"] that this is NOT the case. I believe all TR days are treated as work days, from a PBS award point of view. Within those TR days, the company can move around your "OFF" days as they see fit (respecting the PWA requirement for days off); that "OFF" day could, theoretically, also be less than 30 hours long (late sim on last day followed by early sim on first day back); etc.

AIUI, all of your TR days are "work," so far as PBS (and, probably, PCS) are concerned. Look at your PBS award page--it'll show an end time, probably 1500, on the last TR day. I think (there's that word again) you have to base all your timing on this.

I'd like to know the correct answer if I'm wrong...!

Originally Posted by Brocc15

My simulator schedule on the 88 training page shows my sim schedule has a day off on the 6th. I need to bid for my shadow days which look at FAR rest even though I will not be operating the trip. So I am wondering if PBS knows that I am scheduled that day off or if it just shows me not on rest the entire footprint, therefore I would need to build 30 hrs rest in?

Originally Posted by full of luv

If I understand you correctly, your putting too much into it. Bid whatever you can get for the "shadow" days as that will be awarded and then dropped into open time before it ever even makes it to your schedule.
When it says FAR limits, PBS won't even assign you an "illegal" schedule during your "shadow" footprint, so bottom line, put as much credit into your shadow time as your seniority will allow.

Originally Posted by flyallnite

Mgmt. has a way of making their problems our problems. Dalpa has played right along with it too. Sick leave? Show me all the charts and graphs you want, but I'll bet there isn't one in there that is called "Unused Sick Leave Given Back to the Company For Free" No, instead of a bank system, lets create a department, no, a couple of departments to manage the 'problem'. Then we can go back and forth ad infinitum on who is getting screwed.

Training churn? Take a look at our crazy mixed up fleet, our schizophrenic basing decisions, wildly fluctuating block hour plans and our goofy pairing and wack schedule mix (PBS says it's safe to fly 20 days in a row, why not?) Throw in summer staffing shortages and you've got a lot of pilots who would rather be doing something else. How about a pay band for everything up to a 737? What are we really talking here, a few bucks either way? Add a few bases like MCO and DFW, DCA and PHX. What is a base any more? A place to start and end a trip with some black chairs and some computers with a printer? Everything else is already virtual now. Give people a choice on where they live and you''ll see way less commuting and guys will stay on the equipment in their base. Look at CVG for example. People who live there flying MD88A when they could hold 777A in another base. No, instead of creating an environment where people are happy and stay put, lets keep pulling the rug out from under everyone every couple of years, then we'll have more problems to solve! Let's make stupid 5 day trips with 30 hour layovers instead of lots of out an back turns, sleep in your own bed every night, because nobody would want that, right? Things would be too easy then!

OE trip pulls? Why even bother? Cut the churn, give pilots a bidding choice that they can live with for a few years and you'll see a lot less churn. There are a lot of ways to do things, we just seem to focus on the ones that cause the most pain for the company while they continue to make mgmt. decisions that only make things worse. They could solve every issue they have TOMORROW with the one thing we want and they have in abundance: MONEY. It's that simple.

I really think the reason we do things so bassackwards, our computers are so outdated, our methods are overly complex and needlessly rigid, is to create problems that we have to solve by giving concessions to the company. It's ridiculous the way we do some things nowadays. Other companies let you live anywhere, buy you a ticket to your trip and pay for all sorts of things to make your life easier. Here, on the contrary, we have some pretty insane ways of doing things, just because! Archaic really. Does anyone really fully understand the reserve rules and 117 in totality? It's just easier to answer the bloody phone anymore. Why are we even using phones to do anything?

The technology exists to be able to do things in an entirely new way, and a way that ultimately would save the company money and make life much easier for everyone.

But you know what? It will never happen. Reading the last few CR newsletters have convinced me of that. NO LAX 777 Base! Wait, YES, a WEEK LATER! But ONLY CAPTAINS! Wait, MAYBE FO's! E190's in SEATTLE! That we WEREN'T GETTING 3 weeks ago! A350's in DTW. No, ATL, No, SEA, wait, maybe LAX. Who can plan a life around any of this??? Q: Are we retiring the 757's? A: YES, wait, NO, wait, SOME, WE WON'T BACKFILL. Wait, We WILL BACKFILL...

I am DONE playing this game. You got problems? Solve them yourselves... there's a couple of Brinks trucks pulling up every minute with the means to do so.

Originally Posted by Brocc15

right, thats what I'm trying to do, but to do that it makes a difference in how I will bid based on if it will give me a trip that first day after training or not. I could do back to back 4 days with a 30 hr break in the middle or else if I have to do a 3 day then a 4 day there ARE NOT aNY3 days with 30 hr breaks so then I would then be denied a trip and then lose out on that credit when i could have bid a 5 day over the entire thing. Anyway i think I have it figured out the best I can