acl65pilot

First, that is an expected response. Pilots are smart creatures. They realize that there are a slew of items that cannot be disseminated to the masses. What they are asking for is timely communication that is full of facts and positions prior to the action of the association.

Take for example this JAL deal. It was not but now is in the open. It should have been the Communications Committee's job to be preparing a White Paper on the facts that surround this deal for the time when it would be made public. That is just wise prepration. Waiting until the day of the deal and/or a subsequent TA to start drafting the communique is not the way to do this.

There are plenty of facts out there that can and should be used by the union to state its position.

I expect to see news from the company in the paper, but not my union. The first official position of support of this deal by DALPA was released in the press. That my friend, is a bad precedence

FlyingViking

Take a step back and see how we are kicking each other about pay, instead of negotiation better pay with the company. Since there is (at least in my opinion) no different or harder to fly a 747 than it is to fly a DC-9, I believe the pay difference should be based on years with the company and wheter FO or CA. This would keep senior pilots who needs to be closer to home, closer to home and younger guys without kids to do the long hauls. A much better option for every single pilot on the list and it works awesome for the airlines who uses it.

acl65pilot

In 2008, while the 5 remaining legacy airlines lost a cumulative $4.6 billion (excludes special charges), the 25 top executives collectively received over $90 million in compensation, averaging over $3.6 million per executive.

The legacy airlines are: American (AMR), Delta (DAL), United (UAUA), Continental (CAL) and US Airways (LCC).

So, while upper management did rather well, how did the other stake holders come out?

* In just one year, these 5 legacy carriers lost an incredible $17 billion of stock-holder equity as their cumulative market cap dropped from $21.9 billion to only $5 billion.
* 6,300 jobs were eliminated in 2008.
* The average annual wage per employee was $57,000 and unchanged from a decade ago.

I guess we could use our imagination to estimate how much executive compensation would increase if the airlines actually made money?

Charts below will provide airline-to-airline comparisons for upper level executive compensation. Data is also included for the low cost carrier Southwest Airlines (LUV).

Of the 6 airlines in this analysis, Southwest was the only carrier to have made a profit in 2008.

The 2008 net losses excluding special items for each legacy airline were:

American - $1.183 billion

Delta - $ 503 million

United - $1.729 billion

Continental - $ 351 million

US Airways - $ 803 million

Southwest had a net profit of $294 million.

See figure 1 for more detailed breakdowns of executive compensation.

(click on chart to expand it)

Executive comps
see article for graphs
Trying to Understand Airline Executive Compensation -- Seeking Alpha

There should be no argument airline executives have faced unprecedented challenges since 9/11. It should also come as no surprise that after losing so much, airline employees and investors have a difficult time understanding “executive compensation”.

Superpilot92

BINGO!!! !

freightguy

Reminds me of UPS. Looks like they are pretty happy with that system over there.

I wonder how many pilots here at DAL would favor that system...may be we should do a forum poll! Some ALPA policies has to be changed to effect this and the company has to be sold on it. Will the company buy it considering the fact that we have more narrowbodies than widebodies? What kind of a flat rate salary will we settle for?

Interesting idea my friend. Knowing my buddies in the DC-9 doing 5 leg days in snow and ice work harder than me on a 74 (eventhough they are not gone 10+ days in a row and don't have to deal with jetlag)....I would not be opposed to this.

Pineapple Guy

acl, we are in agreement on this issue.

Executive compensation in this country is abhorrent. I have no problem with tying pay to performance, but in reality, we never do that. They get paid whether their company makes money or loses money. The most egregious example I've recently seen was the pay/bonuses going to the execs of companies who recently terminated pension plans. No money to pay into pensions, but no limit to what they can pay themselves. Wall Street bonuses going to employees of firms receiving government bailouts comes in a close second.

I also think ALPA is too quite on this issue. Having said that, publicly bashing management over it will certainly never stop it; they have no shame. But it should certainly be a public position, that then can be used at the negotiating table, imo.

Spacemann Splif

I received a tiny sample of instant coffee in a mailing from ALPA today. I don't drink coffee. I'd rather have the 0.3 cents.

That's what ALPA doesn't understand, Slow.

johnso29

I think it might actually be more stressful to fly a DC-9 then a 747.
Maybe Carl can chime in.

Spacemann Splif

Maybe if everything's normal/normal. But if things get farked up...not too many divert fields in the big blue Pacific...

RockyBoy

Well, I just got the mailing on bidding stratagies and unstacking for the holiday bid periods. Good thing they made sure to mail out 12,000 of those just in time to bid for the holidays.