Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
11-23-2009, 10:08 AM
ATL A320 B
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Position: No longer MEM or 9, but still a guy.
Posts: 238
[quote=slowplay;715844]Does that put them in the heart of the "pay for training" generation?
[quote]
Slowplay,
Don't assume that all of us with a Regional Airline background "paid for training." There were always other options, and some of us made a the decision not to "pay for training." A lot of us put ourselves through school and didn't get hired by spending even more of "Daddy's money."
As you can tell, I probably share the same opinion as you of that process, just don't assume we all got here that way...
[quote]Slowplay,
Don't assume that all of us with a Regional Airline background "paid for training." There were always other options, and some of us made a the decision not to "pay for training." A lot of us put ourselves through school and didn't get hired by spending even more of "Daddy's money."
As you can tell, I probably share the same opinion as you of that process, just don't assume we all got here that way...
11-23-2009, 10:10 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,902
While we're at it, let's ask:
Improved call-in-honest: What are you willing to give up to get the company to do that?
Improved jumpseat booking: What are you willing to give up to get the company to do that?
Better reserve work rules: What are you willing to give up to get the company to do that?
Better IT so pilot's don't have to log their landings: What are you willing to give up to get the company to do that?
Better retirement/pension: What are you willing to give up to get the company to do that?
More pay: What are you willing to give up to get the company to do that?
What are you willing to give up to get the company to do that?
What are you willing to give up to get the company to do that?
What are you willing to give up to get the company to do that?
What are you willing to give up to get the company to do that?
What are you willing to give up to get the company to do that?
When does it ever stop?
My answer: I HAVE ALREADY GIVEN...IT'S TIME WE MOVE UP, NOT DOWN OR SIDEWAYS.
You sir, are the weak link for thinking like this.
Nu
11-23-2009, 10:12 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,902
11-23-2009, 10:12 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,539
Three.
How long did they last...Delta's was the longest at 4 years six months. UAL and AAA went away a lot sooner. Nobody else had rates that were close. You want to use that contract as an industry standard? Can't you see your own spin?
I want those rates back and more. But wanting isn't a strategy. Hope isn't a gameplan. Wishes are worth what you pay for them. Articulate your strategy. I've articulated mine over and over. We've been on opposite sides of the profitability/wage wave my entire time in this industry; only the amplitude of that wave has increased, resulting in increased risk to our payrates. Did you learn nothing from watching Delta's and NWA's bankruptcies from the sidelines?
You think economics had anything to do with where we are? Free market and all?
I still look forward to your fact based answer.
Here's another one for you. You worked for a company that actively undercut industry leading wage rates established by "older line" regional carriers like CMR, ASA, and ARW. What role did you play in undedrcutting the forward wage momentum that those guys built up? What did you do to correct the trend?
11-23-2009, 10:14 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Heyas,
While we're at it, let's ask:
Improved call-in-honest: What are you willing to give up to get the company to do that?
Improved jumpseat booking: What are you willing to give up to get the company to do that?
Better reserve work rules: What are you willing to give up to get the company to do that?
Better IT so pilot's don't have to log their landings: What are you willing to give up to get the company to do that?
Better retirement/pension: What are you willing to give up to get the company to do that?
More pay: What are you willing to give up to get the company to do that?
What are you willing to give up to get the company to do that?
What are you willing to give up to get the company to do that?
What are you willing to give up to get the company to do that?
What are you willing to give up to get the company to do that?
What are you willing to give up to get the company to do that?
When does it ever stop?
My answer: I HAVE ALREADY GIVEN...IT'S TIME WE MOVE UP, NOT DOWN OR SIDEWAYS.
You sir, are the weak link for thinking like this.
Nu
While we're at it, let's ask:
Improved call-in-honest: What are you willing to give up to get the company to do that?
Improved jumpseat booking: What are you willing to give up to get the company to do that?
Better reserve work rules: What are you willing to give up to get the company to do that?
Better IT so pilot's don't have to log their landings: What are you willing to give up to get the company to do that?
Better retirement/pension: What are you willing to give up to get the company to do that?
More pay: What are you willing to give up to get the company to do that?
What are you willing to give up to get the company to do that?
What are you willing to give up to get the company to do that?
What are you willing to give up to get the company to do that?
What are you willing to give up to get the company to do that?
What are you willing to give up to get the company to do that?
When does it ever stop?
My answer: I HAVE ALREADY GIVEN...IT'S TIME WE MOVE UP, NOT DOWN OR SIDEWAYS.
You sir, are the weak link for thinking like this.
Nu
11-23-2009, 10:15 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,539
[quote=Mem9guy;715859][quote=slowplay;715844]Does that put them in the heart of the "pay for training" generation?
Slowplay,
Don't assume that all of us with a Regional Airline background "paid for training." There were always other options, and some of us made a the decision not to "pay for training." A lot of us put ourselves through school and didn't get hired by spending even more of "Daddy's money."
As you can tell, I probably share the same opinion as you of that process, just don't assume we all got here that way...
I don't. And it's behind us anyway, but it's an interesting historical reference for those that trumpet "restoration" as a gameplan...
Slowplay,
Don't assume that all of us with a Regional Airline background "paid for training." There were always other options, and some of us made a the decision not to "pay for training." A lot of us put ourselves through school and didn't get hired by spending even more of "Daddy's money."
As you can tell, I probably share the same opinion as you of that process, just don't assume we all got here that way...
11-23-2009, 10:22 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
How many airlines had payrates close to Delta's C2K?
Three.
How long did they last...Delta's was the longest at 4 years six months. UAL and AAA went away a lot sooner. Nobody else had rates that were close. You want to use that contract as an industry standard? Can't you see your own spin?
I want those rates back and more. But wanting isn't a strategy. Hope isn't a gameplan. Wishes are worth what you pay for them. Articulate your strategy. I've articulated mine over and over. We've been on opposite sides of the profitability/wage wave my entire time in this industry; only the amplitude of that wave has increased, resulting in increased risk to our payrates. Did you learn nothing from watching Delta's and NWA's bankruptcies from the sidelines?
You think economics had anything to do with where we are? Free market and all?
I still look forward to your fact based answer.
Here's another one for you. You worked for a company that actively undercut industry leading wage rates established by "older line" regional carriers like CMR, ASA, and ARW. What role did you play in undedrcutting the forward wage momentum that those guys built up? What did you do to correct the trend?
Three.
How long did they last...Delta's was the longest at 4 years six months. UAL and AAA went away a lot sooner. Nobody else had rates that were close. You want to use that contract as an industry standard? Can't you see your own spin?
I want those rates back and more. But wanting isn't a strategy. Hope isn't a gameplan. Wishes are worth what you pay for them. Articulate your strategy. I've articulated mine over and over. We've been on opposite sides of the profitability/wage wave my entire time in this industry; only the amplitude of that wave has increased, resulting in increased risk to our payrates. Did you learn nothing from watching Delta's and NWA's bankruptcies from the sidelines?
You think economics had anything to do with where we are? Free market and all?
I still look forward to your fact based answer.
Here's another one for you. You worked for a company that actively undercut industry leading wage rates established by "older line" regional carriers like CMR, ASA, and ARW. What role did you play in undedrcutting the forward wage momentum that those guys built up? What did you do to correct the trend?
He went to an airline that at the time was owned by NWA.
As for most pilots that go to the bottom feeders. They have no idea about this career and the pitfalls. They do not understand that getting a job with Mesa means that they are undercutting their future earnings. They are just trying to get that first airline job and get the time to come here or one of the other big airlines. By the time they figure it out, it is too late, they have seniority and are stuck at that place.
On top of it our companies have designed a system where pilots have to go to the regionals to get here. We need to counteract that with education from the earliest days in ERAU, or UND et al. They need to be told the way the industry is, and what effect certain actions have on the career as a whole, not to mention to them.
DAL has hired guys that went from TSA to Go Jets, just to get the time to come here. Now that is ugly.
What else is even more true is that DAL and the pilots that interview know nor care about this, which furthers the motivation to get the time, no matter what the cost.I want to add that I do mentor a lot of guys that are aspiring pilots and tell them who and what to avoid in this industry. Many of the guys on here do. We need ALPA to do many things in this arena.
11-23-2009, 10:26 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Dismayed
Posts: 1,598
Is the JAL deal under time constraints?
Found this while surfing on SC.
The rest of it is here US rivals circle as loss-making Japan Airlines flies into peril - Times Online
The news is from last week but since Bastian was quoted in Tokyo, perhaps a deal is closer than anyone thinks.
Japan Airlines (JAL), which may have only enough cash to fund ten more days of operation, could be allowed to go bankrupt if a rescue package does not emerge quickly, the Government hinted yesterday.
The scramble to secure a viable future for JAL is primed to trigger turmoil throughout the global airline industry as rival alliances lunge for its extensive collection of international routes. For carriers in the United States, JAL’s crisis represents a rare opportunity to extend their foothold in the Asian market.
Two cash-injection offers, each worth more than $1 billion (£596 million), are now on the table for JAL as American Airlines and Delta Airlines vie to buy the critical partnership. If Delta could lure JAL to the SkyTeam alliance, analysts said that the move would deal a heavy blow to British Airways and other members of the OneWorld grouping.
The scramble to secure a viable future for JAL is primed to trigger turmoil throughout the global airline industry as rival alliances lunge for its extensive collection of international routes. For carriers in the United States, JAL’s crisis represents a rare opportunity to extend their foothold in the Asian market.
Two cash-injection offers, each worth more than $1 billion (£596 million), are now on the table for JAL as American Airlines and Delta Airlines vie to buy the critical partnership. If Delta could lure JAL to the SkyTeam alliance, analysts said that the move would deal a heavy blow to British Airways and other members of the OneWorld grouping.
The news is from last week but since Bastian was quoted in Tokyo, perhaps a deal is closer than anyone thinks.
11-23-2009, 10:51 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: Left, left, left right left....
Posts: 911
You nailed it. The Co. *never* gives anything because you did them a favor earlier - if it's not negotiated you never see it. The small crumbs they throw DALPA for subservience are a pittance compared to what could be negotiated if we ever transcend the still lingering BK mindset.
If they are showing gestures of good will its only because it buys us off way cheaper than hard contractual improvements. I wish I'd had girlfriends as easy as DALPA when I was in HS
So according to world as explained to us garden variety line pilots, DAL is just going to share the wealth with us because they are doing well with our cooperation? Or maybe they'll just take the profits we are helping them make and, oh....invest a $billion or so in JAL, and new 76 seater fleet renewal at the DCI's to outsource our jobs, and then claim there is nothing to give us later.
Here is a novel concept - if they will sweeten the pot a bit because they need our help, they might actually be willing to provide concrete contractual improvements were we to make them sit down at the table before helping them for free.
The time to come with your hand out is before you lend them a hand.
Last edited by Fly4hire; 11-23-2009 at 11:33 AM.
11-23-2009, 11:35 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Nu,
You nailed it. The Co. *never* gives anything because you did them a favor earlier - if it's not negotiated you never see it. The small crumbs they throw DALPA for subservience are a pittance compared to what could be negotiated if we ever transcend the still lingering BK mindset.
If they are showing gestures of good will its only because it buys us off way cheaper than hard contractual improvements. I wish I'd had girlfriends as easy as DALPA when I was in HS
So according to world as explained to us garden variety line pilots, DAL is just going to share the wealth with us because they are doing well with our cooperation? Or maybe they'll just take the profits we are helping them make and, oh....invest a $billion or so in JAL, and new 76 seater fleet renewal at the DCI's to outsource our jobs, and then claim there is nothing to give us later.
Here is a novel concept - if they will sweeten the pot a bit because they need our help, they might actually be willing to provide concrete contractual improvements were we to make them sit down at the table before helping them for free.
The time to come with your hand out is before you lend them a hand.
You nailed it. The Co. *never* gives anything because you did them a favor earlier - if it's not negotiated you never see it. The small crumbs they throw DALPA for subservience are a pittance compared to what could be negotiated if we ever transcend the still lingering BK mindset.
If they are showing gestures of good will its only because it buys us off way cheaper than hard contractual improvements. I wish I'd had girlfriends as easy as DALPA when I was in HS
So according to world as explained to us garden variety line pilots, DAL is just going to share the wealth with us because they are doing well with our cooperation? Or maybe they'll just take the profits we are helping them make and, oh....invest a $billion or so in JAL, and new 76 seater fleet renewal at the DCI's to outsource our jobs, and then claim there is nothing to give us later.
Here is a novel concept - if they will sweeten the pot a bit because they need our help, they might actually be willing to provide concrete contractual improvements were we to make them sit down at the table before helping them for free.
The time to come with your hand out is before you lend them a hand.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
