Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
11-23-2009, 08:44 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Nu,
Great post. Slow and the others are asking us to trust the MEC. However, I'm reminded of Reagan's old adage: "Trust but verify."
The problem is we can't verify because the communication isn't there. I wonder if the Communication Committee doesn't/can't put out info or is it because they themselves are being kept in the dark on purpose?
Great post. Slow and the others are asking us to trust the MEC. However, I'm reminded of Reagan's old adage: "Trust but verify."
The problem is we can't verify because the communication isn't there. I wonder if the Communication Committee doesn't/can't put out info or is it because they themselves are being kept in the dark on purpose?
11-23-2009, 08:50 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: 757 Left
Posts: 1,308
He may have had a good point. What are you willing to give up to get the company to do that? If we let the RJs price themselves out of business we give up nothing and get what we want anyway when they decide they have to buy airplanes that we have to fly.
11-23-2009, 08:52 AM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Ahh, here we go again...
You can start your reality check on the home page of APC. Look at the payrates and retirement section for airlines flying similar aircraft. Look at the payrates for each comparable airline. Look at the retirement section for each comparable airline. Then try and draw a reality based conclusion knowing that those Delta rates are increasing by 4% in 38 days, and the DC is going up by 1%. You can run that comparison through 2012 if you'd like. That's the real world.
You bet I want more, but in this economy I'm damn pleased with 17%, 3% more DC, and 5.6% of our company. If our company does really well I'll get profit sharing in the near term and my stock value will go up. We will be well positioned to get more with every opportunity that presents itself. If our company keeps losing money we won't.
Didn't you join Delta post-bankruptcy from PCL?
Maybe you can enlighten me on how much better we should be doing in the real world, and how you would have gotten us there...articulate the workable plan and I'll stand behind you. Just don't stub your toe, or I'll get on APC and start throwing rocks!
You can start your reality check on the home page of APC. Look at the payrates and retirement section for airlines flying similar aircraft. Look at the payrates for each comparable airline. Look at the retirement section for each comparable airline. Then try and draw a reality based conclusion knowing that those Delta rates are increasing by 4% in 38 days, and the DC is going up by 1%. You can run that comparison through 2012 if you'd like. That's the real world.
You bet I want more, but in this economy I'm damn pleased with 17%, 3% more DC, and 5.6% of our company. If our company does really well I'll get profit sharing in the near term and my stock value will go up. We will be well positioned to get more with every opportunity that presents itself. If our company keeps losing money we won't.
Didn't you join Delta post-bankruptcy from PCL?
Maybe you can enlighten me on how much better we should be doing in the real world, and how you would have gotten us there...articulate the workable plan and I'll stand behind you. Just don't stub your toe, or I'll get on APC and start throwing rocks!I'll respond in more detail later today... the point of my post was primarily a very sarcastic way of saying CUT THE FREAKING SPIN. Myself and most of the others here can see straight through it. I was illustrating just how rediculous your constant spin over these "great achievements" makes you look.
Those weren't great achievements that I listed. They were small victories at best, or dumb luck in the case of the RJ50's being parked- The AF JV I believe was very well done. I hope they can do something right with this JAL deal.
edit: you seem to like to grab on to the fact that I'm a "new hire" and came from Pinnacle during bk. I felt the company had a solid plan and also that I was "buying low" on the payrates... not to mention I'm originally from ATL. You also are really missing the fact that I've lived and breathed airlines since my first steps as a child. I may be young, but I know this industry inside and out and can smell spinned bullcrap from a mile away.
Last edited by 80ktsClamp; 11-23-2009 at 09:05 AM.
11-23-2009, 09:11 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
I'll respond in more detail later today... the point of my post was primarily a very sarcastic way of saying CUT THE FREAKING SPIN. Myself and most of the others here can see straight through it. I was illustrating just how rediculous your constant spin over these "great achievements" makes you look.
Those weren't great achievements that I listed. They were small victories at best, or dumb luck in the case of the RJ50's being parked- The AF JV I believe was very well done. I hope they can do something right with this JAL deal.
edit: you seem to like to grab on to the fact that I'm a "new hire" and came from Pinnacle during bk. I felt the company had a solid plan and also that I was "buying low" on the payrates... not to mention I'm originally from ATL. You also are really missing the fact that I've lived and breathed airlines since my first steps as a child. I may be young, but I know this industry inside and out and can smell spinned bullcrap from a mile away.
Those weren't great achievements that I listed. They were small victories at best, or dumb luck in the case of the RJ50's being parked- The AF JV I believe was very well done. I hope they can do something right with this JAL deal.
edit: you seem to like to grab on to the fact that I'm a "new hire" and came from Pinnacle during bk. I felt the company had a solid plan and also that I was "buying low" on the payrates... not to mention I'm originally from ATL. You also are really missing the fact that I've lived and breathed airlines since my first steps as a child. I may be young, but I know this industry inside and out and can smell spinned bullcrap from a mile away.
Agreed.
Add to it, that coming from a regional you have seen the bull crap from the other side too! Walks and talks like a duck, it must crap like a duck too!
You used to be able to tell junior guys to wait a few years to get a lay of the land. In some cases we have New Hires at DAL that have been ALPA pilots for 15-20 years. They know the game better than many here.
11-23-2009, 09:31 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,539
I look forward to your fact based response.
now for the inflammatory opinion
...it appears you're letting your personal dislike for this internet persona interfere with your analytical skills. If you're going to make a difference you'll have to learn to overcome that!
11-23-2009, 09:34 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,539
I understand your point. And like you, I can be quite contrarian at times just to elicit a response...
11-23-2009, 09:39 AM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Serious question. Where is the spin in what I posted?
I look forward to your fact based response.
now for the inflammatory opinion...it appears you're letting your personal dislike for this internet persona to interfere with your analytical skills. If you're going to make a difference you'll have to learn to overcome that!
I look forward to your fact based response.
now for the inflammatory opinion
...it appears you're letting your personal dislike for this internet persona to interfere with your analytical skills. If you're going to make a difference you'll have to learn to overcome that!You really can't see your own spin with your level of education and training? Calling the JPWA "payraises" a great victory? You really consider them payraises? Take a look at your C2K payrates and tell me if what we got was actually a raise? Then add inflation to those rates and tell me what they were then?
This whole deal with acting like DALPA is causing the parking of the RJ50's... you've never come up with any quantitative data of anything our contracts have done to help park the 50's other than the fact that "yes, they are being parked." It's not the unions doing. Doing something about it would be...say limiting the small jet outsourcing at the now lower levels. The only thing that's been accomplished in that regard is jacked up language that had to be LOA'd at a HIGHER value than the MEC originally intended.
Again, we venture into "we didn't intend that" land. Never admitting errors and never accepting responsibility. Kids these days, I tell you.
Shall I go on? The MEC can and does make errors, and you have a total inability to acknolwedge that. If you could acknowledge and take responsibility for those errors or short comings, my respect for your "internet persona" would increase greatly.
FYI- no pay for training here. Working 7 days a week while in college to build flight time and 3000 CRJ hours in 3 years at a regional.
11-23-2009, 09:47 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
Not quite. It does put them into the heart of "junior manned to Captain in new hire class."
The pace of seniority growth at Delta, or any of the majors is really an adjustment for those who transitioned through the boom years of outsourced flying. That's probably one of the reasons many junior pilots are so hawkish on these issues. Many spent 6 months or less in a right seat before coming to Delta.
Ideally, they would like to see that flying come back and see a more immediate return on the "investment" (loss of seniority and pay) they made by leaving a super senior position.
It is what it is. Whether or not they (me included) adjust to reality or not does not too much matter.
The pace of seniority growth at Delta, or any of the majors is really an adjustment for those who transitioned through the boom years of outsourced flying. That's probably one of the reasons many junior pilots are so hawkish on these issues. Many spent 6 months or less in a right seat before coming to Delta.
Ideally, they would like to see that flying come back and see a more immediate return on the "investment" (loss of seniority and pay) they made by leaving a super senior position.
It is what it is. Whether or not they (me included) adjust to reality or not does not too much matter.
11-23-2009, 10:03 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Someday, I would love to see what your personal take is on many of the issues that surround DALPA.....
11-23-2009, 10:07 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
No PFT there, I got that training another way. The sad fact is that I walked in to DAL with 2800 hrs the first time and 7500+ the second time. The first time I had 1000 PICT the second time well over 6000 hrs PICT. The time between 2001 and 2007 was a very bad time for this career and is part of the reason that I see restoration all fronts as mandatory, not just preferable.
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