Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,544
My price just went up because of this. And section 3 means nothing without the rest of it. Blowing 5 billion for zero long term gain in this extremely cyclical industry is a Leo Mullin style amateur hour move designed for executive and short term speculators to pump and dump.
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: DAL FO
Posts: 2,169
Alan, you were right. It is a 1 hour buffer to make it legal, so the layover needs to be >= 31:00.
They pointed me towards the PBS gouge here:
http://www.pbshelp.info/delta/PBS_Gouge.pdf
For anyone else following along, as Alan said, all FAR's are buffered by 1 hour. Page 45 of the gouge:
FAR Limits
Full implementation of FAR 117 goes into effect for Delta Air Lines operations on 1 Jan 2014. PBS buffers these FAR limits by 60 minutes.
Full implementation of FAR 117 goes into effect for Delta Air Lines operations on 1 Jan 2014. PBS buffers these FAR limits by 60 minutes.
Anytime I see Alan Shore and LeineLodge posting back to back, I figure I'm going to learn something... yep, did. Thanks for the research/info!
On a similar topic that you guys probably know in your noggins, I believe I read that the PBS spacing BETWEEN rotations must be 12 hours. However, someone told me that once it's built in PBS then the spacing between rotations to WS or GS is just 10:30... are these nums true? As a commuter that spacing requirement between trips sometimes bites me when I see two short trips I'd like to put together to avoid a commute, but can't get it... I'm never quite sure what I need between them.
Thanks!
On a similar topic that you guys probably know in your noggins, I believe I read that the PBS spacing BETWEEN rotations must be 12 hours. However, someone told me that once it's built in PBS then the spacing between rotations to WS or GS is just 10:30... are these nums true? As a commuter that spacing requirement between trips sometimes bites me when I see two short trips I'd like to put together to avoid a commute, but can't get it... I'm never quite sure what I need between them.
Thanks!
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Posts: 463
My price just went up because of this. And section 3 means nothing without the rest of it. Blowing 5 billion for zero long term gain in this extremely cyclical industry is a Leo Mullin style amateur hour move designed for executive and short term speculators to pump and dump.
It would be very arrogant of them to pull a move like this without plans to restore the pilots to where they were fifteen years ago! If the company turns around and asks for scope relief (regional to JV), productivity gives, robbing PS to push up pay rates then it's essentially them saying "I've got mine" and giving the middle finger to the pilot group. If this happens, the pro-engagment, company pleasing union guys better be ready to put labor risk back on the table.
If there is one thing that is clear, RA is 100% focused on pumping this stock up and becoming like unto the "best industrials" and better than Fedex for example. Along with throwing company money at the investors to accomplish this, he often states at each conference call "we have the best labor relationship in the industry with our pilots". He doesn't ever want to spook any of the investors....that effects stock price. It's one of his favorite things to sell. There is your leverage folks.
Interesting side note, RA loves to compare Delta financials to Fedex. Our own union and a handful of guys here shy away from it to lower expectations. There is something seriously flawed with that approach.
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: DAL FO
Posts: 2,169
Anytime I see Alan Shore and LeineLodge posting back to back, I figure I'm going to learn something... yep, did. Thanks for the research/info!
On a similar topic that you guys probably know in your noggins, I believe I read that the PBS spacing BETWEEN rotations must be 12 hours. However, someone told me that once it's built in PBS then the spacing between rotations to WS or GS is just 10:30... are these nums true? As a commuter that spacing requirement between trips sometimes bites me when I see two short trips I'd like to put together to avoid a commute, but can't get it... I'm never quite sure what I need between them.
Thanks!
On a similar topic that you guys probably know in your noggins, I believe I read that the PBS spacing BETWEEN rotations must be 12 hours. However, someone told me that once it's built in PBS then the spacing between rotations to WS or GS is just 10:30... are these nums true? As a commuter that spacing requirement between trips sometimes bites me when I see two short trips I'd like to put together to avoid a commute, but can't get it... I'm never quite sure what I need between them.
Thanks!
PWA Limits
Unlike the FAR limitations, there is no buffer on PWA limitations.
Breaks between pairings
Section 23. D.
Unlike the FAR limitations, there is no buffer on PWA limitations.
Breaks between pairings
Section 23. D.
12. A domestic category regular line will be constructed to contain at least 12 hours free of duty
between rotations.
between rotations.
13. An international category regular line will be constructed to contain at least:
a. 48 hours free of duty between all different direction (Europe/Pacific/South America)
ocean-crossing rotations.
Exception: A pilot may reduce this requirement to 24 hours free of duty in PBS.
PBS Committee note: This option is accessible under Waive Rule.
b. 13 hours free of duty prior to a trans-oceanic duty period.
c. 18 hours free of duty following a trans-oceanic duty period.
d. 12 hours free of duty between rotations.
ocean-crossing rotations.
Exception: A pilot may reduce this requirement to 24 hours free of duty in PBS.
PBS Committee note: This option is accessible under Waive Rule.
b. 13 hours free of duty prior to a trans-oceanic duty period.
c. 18 hours free of duty following a trans-oceanic duty period.
d. 12 hours free of duty between rotations.
f. the rotation creates a rotation overlap and/or is within 30 minutes of creating an FAR and/or PWA conflict,
Exception one: This 30-minute limitation does not apply to the pilot’s block hour limit (see Section 12 B.).
Exception two: A pilot may be awarded a white slip in the current bid period that will create an FAR and/or PWA conflict with a rotation in the next bid period. The conflicting rotation in the next bid period will be removed from the pilot’s line. The pilot’s projection/line guarantee will be reduced by the credit of the removed rotation.
Exception one: This 30-minute limitation does not apply to the pilot’s block hour limit (see Section 12 B.).
Exception two: A pilot may be awarded a white slip in the current bid period that will create an FAR and/or PWA conflict with a rotation in the next bid period. The conflicting rotation in the next bid period will be removed from the pilot’s line. The pilot’s projection/line guarantee will be reduced by the credit of the removed rotation.
23.Q.8 - A pilot will not be awarded a GS or GSWC if:
e. the rotation creates an FAR and/or PWA conflict with a rotation already flown.
e. the rotation creates an FAR and/or PWA conflict with a rotation already flown.
Last edited by LeineLodge; 05-14-2015 at 10:15 AM.
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,108
Buzz says we can't hit the 2004 hourly rates 1/1/16 because Delta won't be investment grade. Is that one of the sell job talking points?
I guess the $6 billion to.shareholders in 30 months isn't enough.
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,994
Where might a fellow lay eyes on a FedEx/Delta pilot contract comparison? Since I expect nothing from ALPA at the moment, I guess I have to hunt down the info myself...
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2014
Posts: 429
I don't think FDX or UPS have Profit Sharing. As for the rest of the contract uhhh, we lose. Pretty sure that is accurate. OFG
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Position: Unknown
Posts: 38
Ted74, With very minimal effort I was able to review the contract comparison that ALPA put out. It is on the ALPA website under the Contract 2015 banner. Once you click on the banner, go to the input link and the comparison is there. It includes FedEx and UPS. Hix
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: DAL FO
Posts: 2,169
Hix beat me to it, but the DALPA Negotiating Committee put out a detailed (56 pages long) contract comparison back before we took the survey.
You can find it linked here (must be logged in):
Contract Comparison
I would highly recommend logging in and clicking on the Contract 2015 Banner. There is a ton of information in there that is intended to keep the pilot group up to speed on the past/present status of C2015 negotiations.
If you don't want to "hunt the info down" yourself, I suggest signing up for PilotBlast on the DALPA Homepage. Click the red icon in the upper left corner that looks like a smartphone.
Once you put your info in, you can select to receive notifications of only the information that you are interested in. I primarily use it for bid reminders and alerts for when my category's awards are published, but you can also sign up for "C2015 Negotiations Update Alert" to receive a text anytime DALPA publishes something about negotiations.
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