pilotjockey

agreed, this needs repeated over and over again. we have to stick up for each other and things that are important to different parts of the pilot group, if the alpo part of the pilot group sticks up for us that would be nice too

GunshipGuy

Timbo, I didn't fully consider the points you made here, and while I was open to the idea of considering some system to change the way the company buys trips for OE (one that didn't put the pilot into recovery flying) I'm not as inclined now (as in I can't imagine anything that could change it and not sacrifice advancement as you pointed out). If our negotiators do come back with a change to this part of the contract I hope our union points out what you have here (not holding my breath). If not, there's not much likelihood of many in our group getting these great points you've made.

shiznit

Nope... But I see what you're saying. Remember, we don't get paid off of net profit, we get paid off of PTIX before special items and profit sharing deducted:
1.1B of money in the PS pool
250M = 10% X 2.5B
850M / 20% = 4.25B
PTIX was approx. 6.75b in 2014

PTIX 10b:
(.1 x 2.5B) + (.2 x 7.5B) = 1.75B
250M + 1.5B = 1.75B

PS dollars set aside:
1.1 = 16.58%
1.75 = 26.37% (using 2014 wages/employee pool size)

Wage growth of 3% for non contract employees (4% but only 9 mos.)
and no new pilot deal but pilots increased 3.55% for all 12 months of 2015. *Assumption*: total payroll grew by approx. 3% in 2014.
26.37% / 1.03 = 25.6% / 1.032 = est. 24.8% Payout for 2015 if $10B PTIX

forgot to bid

Was it that atrocious?

Scoop

Not that bad, but Mayweather was backing up for most of the fight and in my opinion Pacquiao was the clear aggressor.

Twice (that I saw) Pacquia appeared to land solid punches that stunned Mayweather - I never saw Mayweather land anything very hard.

Mayweather did appear to land more jabs. These two guys are pretty evenly matched.

In my non-technical, non boxing fan mind it was basically a draw.

Scoop

Going2Baja

Correct Timbo....And the sad part is that they know all they need is 51% and they would get that w/ the same pay offer as last time. Much like the GOP, our MEC needs to run a campaign demanding nothing less than xx%, +++. I'm hearing nothing but "Trust your Negotiating Team," "We heard your Survey and are conveying your wishes." I don't hear a thing on The Line about 'minimal accepted pay increase.' During Alaska's Contract there wasn't a Company computer that didn't have a screen saver showing SWA's Capt's Pay. Mngt knew that anything shy of this would be turned down. I'm not seeing ANYTHING at DAL showing our 'Line in the Sand.' Something like Contract 2000++ would be a start. But I feel like we'll have a TA here soon and it will pass 61%.

Baja.

gloopy

While I agree with that, I can't possibly see this issue being worth anywhere remotely closet to 2500 pilot positions. Maybe a tenth that, if that. Summer 30 day months alone was a much bigger concession than that would be. But if we are entertaining it (or any other manning concession) the payoff should be net manning positive or no deal. Like 5 hours a day vaca (pay and credit) and an extra week if we still come up short.

In any case though, the fact that this rumor is getting so much traction is symptomatic of a well run FUD play by management and their Ford and Harrison line coaches. The REAL manning issue here is SCOPE, and by comparison look how little people are talking about that.

We have HUGE deficiencies in our international JV's and a flat out contractual violation by the company despite a massive, earth shattering pro-company language of a 3 year blank check downside followed by another year long flagrantly ignored "cure period". While the Alaska code share abuse is in remission, it is only because the actions of the Alaska CEO, and it could come back at ANY time and then some. We have some of our existing regionals with firm orders for 100ish seaters and when asked who they will fly them for they say don't worry when they get here we will have agreements.

The emotional issues (pro and con) of a few dozen guys getting paid to sit at home or do a full month for triple pay is a drop in the ocean compared to the scope issues we're facing which are getting almost zero attention.

georgetg

^^^ THIS ^^^

Don't forget how we got played in the Virgin Atlantic deal…

While the concept of global production balance in general is sound, our timing and how it is implemented in the Virgin JV couldn't have been worse. Ever since we've signed that LOA, Virgin has pulled out of non-US international markets and redeployed that capacity on flights to the US.

Network changes | Virgin Atlantic

Had we signed a simple production balance for the Transatlantic, Delta would have been forced to match the Virgin US-flying increases or at least balance the flying by adding many more flights on the Delta side of the Virgin JV.

So while Virgin significantly increased flying to the US, our agreement with a global production balance conveniently required no growth on DAL flying. In fact Virgin could exclusively shift all flying to exclusively US routes and our Virgin JV LOA wouldn't require any increase of Delta flying at all.

The bottom line, unless we get a global production balance for all JV and codeshare flying and the company actually honors the contract it signed we will once again find ourselves one step behind.

The Mideast carriers are getting all the attention for the potential flying they could take over "our routes" while our existing agreements are being ignored for years and flying is going to the "other" guys because we didn't pay attention…

Capacity constraint is nice and good and has provided huge financial benefits to Delta but its time the European partners shoulder some of the capacity reductions instead of Delta pilots...

Cheers
George

Timbo

Sorry for the confusion, I was talking about going from a 75hr. cap up to the MEC claimed 'average' 92. hrs being flown now, for the 2,500 pilot positions lost. You are correct, the IOE trip hold-back issue wouldn't be nearly that many, but I'll try to run some napkin math on that now, just to see how many jobs it might cost.

We know Delta is hiring about 100/month. All 100 of those new pilots are going to need IOE. If they are all domestic (and some are going to the ER) they will most likely get an IOE of about 25 hours (might be even more, certainly for the ER it will be). So take the 100 newbs, every month, X 25 block hours = 2,500 block hours of flying held out of the bid packages, every month, which at say 80hrs per line, would = 31.25 lines of flying held back, every month.

And that's JUST for the new hires.

Now, let's add in all the upgrades and seat changing in every category. Look at the A/E out right now. How many IOE events will that create? I don't have it in front of me but it will create a LOT of IOE's.

Going forward, when the new A330's and 350's and A321's start showing up; more IOE trips NOT in the bid packages, more lost positions.

Now throw in lost jobs due to Pay Banding, if the company comes after that, and I'm sure they will.

That all adds up to fewer upgrades required and fewer bodies in every category.

We already got to see what PBS has done for upward progression, or lack of, now that the average pilot is flying 92, vs. 75. That was the -2,500 jobs.

Now add in everything you said about all the JV non-compliance.

Richard wants to run this place as lean as possible, obviously. That's his job.

It would be nice if DALPA would do THEIR JOB and stand up to Richard, to protect OUR JOBS, for once.

Hrkdrivr

Newhires get 35 hours OE. I think new captains get the FAA minimum of 25.