Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
04-20-2015, 06:47 AM
Gets Weekends Off
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It is important to state which plane and boat. A canoe and an ultralight could be considered fulfilling that requirement.
04-20-2015, 06:48 AM
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Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: 7er
Posts: 1,673
I wonder how guys like Buzz (stagnant generation) feel when they read posts like this about how much "we're" making. I can tell you I'm no where near what my lawyer friends make (fact), nor my dentist (strong assumption). As for doctors, even adding my wife's income (nurse) and multiplying the total times 3 we don't make what they make.
And yes, there are a lot of "we want _____" from this contract. That's what you get when you've got 12,000+ members who are each asked what's important to them. That doesn't mean it should be turned against the group as if it's a greedy mob of malcontents.
And yes, there are a lot of "we want _____" from this contract. That's what you get when you've got 12,000+ members who are each asked what's important to them. That doesn't mean it should be turned against the group as if it's a greedy mob of malcontents.
04-20-2015, 06:55 AM
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Lawyer salary varies greatly. For every big buck attorney there are several starving ambulance chasers. I would guess that average Delta pilot pay exceeds average attorney pay. On the other hand, Doctor salary also varies a lot. Big buck doctors pay more for malpractice insurance than they do in taxes. That eats up a huge chunk of their earnings. There are a lot of attorneys and doctors who out earn Delta pilots and there are a lot who don't.
04-20-2015, 07:18 AM
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 757/767
Posts: 588
How does Scheduling know when I have plans with my in-laws that I can't change? It's a green slip bonanza every time. This past weekend they called at least four times before I changed my slip request. One time they had three trips and gave me my choice...
04-20-2015, 07:49 AM
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Posts: 1,184
The problem is that we simply don't get a high enough hourly rate. If we all could make more than an average middle class income we wouldn't need to work as much as we do.
Back in the day it was a full month to do 3 4-day domestic trips. Now you have to do 4. Also those 3 trips were typically commutable, now the 4 we have to do start at 0500 and get done at 2000.
Every contract we get "better" work rules, but the company exploits them to make them cost neutral and we get screwed.
Won't be long until we are all doing 4 5-day trips a month to make what our neighbors who manage Wal-Mart make.
How about we stop getting more "efficient" work rules and just make them pay us in rates? I would rather do 3 4-day trips a month than 4 5-day trips a month for the same pay.
Back in the day it was a full month to do 3 4-day domestic trips. Now you have to do 4. Also those 3 trips were typically commutable, now the 4 we have to do start at 0500 and get done at 2000.
Every contract we get "better" work rules, but the company exploits them to make them cost neutral and we get screwed.
Won't be long until we are all doing 4 5-day trips a month to make what our neighbors who manage Wal-Mart make.
How about we stop getting more "efficient" work rules and just make them pay us in rates? I would rather do 3 4-day trips a month than 4 5-day trips a month for the same pay.
fill
04-20-2015, 07:52 AM
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04-20-2015, 07:55 AM
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OK, but in this case we were talking about the non-commutable trips, and how they're a natural by-product of asking for a higher ADG. Asking for a higher ADG is the opposite of an efficiency concession. Our gain of the ADG 5:15 is what we always stated we wanted: to be paid more for each day worked. We got it. The catch is that we're actually expected to work on those days.
This isn't a case of giving up efficiency to get payrates, it's a case of failing to acknowledge the QOL trade-offs made in an efficiency gain. It's a very simple issue, really: if we want to pack more flying into each day of flying, each day of flying is contain more flying, including the first and last days of a trip. If we want short days at either end of the trip, then we're going to have to fly more trips, or work longer trips.
This isn't a case of giving up efficiency to get payrates, it's a case of failing to acknowledge the QOL trade-offs made in an efficiency gain. It's a very simple issue, really: if we want to pack more flying into each day of flying, each day of flying is contain more flying, including the first and last days of a trip. If we want short days at either end of the trip, then we're going to have to fly more trips, or work longer trips.
DAL hates credit. You want to get paid for 6 hours/day, you are gonna WORK 6 hours/day or more. I hear what you are thinking: "But I'll get done sooner." I'll betcha the next round of whining will be about how fatiguing these schedules are.
04-20-2015, 08:13 AM
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2015
Posts: 43
I agree for the most part, but of the lawyers I know none makes less than I do. One just bought a $4M house, another sends his kids to a $50,000/year prep school in CT and some ballerina school in NYC, and the rest are enjoying their earnings by getting ready for early retirement before turning 55.
04-20-2015, 08:19 AM
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Posts: 1,184
According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics - U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (May, 2014)
Lawyer's Mean Annual Wage - $133,470
Lawyer's Median Annual Wage - $114,970
Pilot's Mean Annual Wage - $131,760
Pilot's Median Annual Wage - $118,140
Family & General Practitioner Mean Annual Wage - $186,320
Family & General Practitioner Median Annual Wage - $180,180
** I wouldn't say "well above" Sailing, but the statistics don't show us too far removed.
Lawyer's Mean Annual Wage - $133,470
Lawyer's Median Annual Wage - $114,970
Pilot's Mean Annual Wage - $131,760
Pilot's Median Annual Wage - $118,140
Family & General Practitioner Mean Annual Wage - $186,320
Family & General Practitioner Median Annual Wage - $180,180
** I wouldn't say "well above" Sailing, but the statistics don't show us too far removed.
Step 3. Since we have been recently been categorized as less than middle class and looking up at Wal Mart managers, do you have any earnings data on them?
Good job on the research.
04-20-2015, 08:27 AM
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Posts: 3,108
20 April 2015
Representatives and Officers of the Delta Airline Pilots Association,
My fellow pilots and I are aware that there is to be a special MEC meeting tomorrow the 21st of April. There is something that we would like all of you to consider at that meeting. I have worked very hard to get the pilots of Delta Air Lines to engage with their representation. Unfortunately, a very large number of pilots don’t want to talk to you. They only want to see results.
I am a true volunteer in the fact that I don’t get paid for this. Even the P2P volunteers get paid for attending training sessions. Me, I just want what is best for our pilots, our association, and the flying public. The pilots that I talk to tell me that this negotiation is very different from contract 2012. Our pilots have educated themselves. They have looked at the SEC filings of the company. They have read the reports from Wall Street. They know that restoring our pay and benefits to levels equal to what we had before 9-11, is mere crumbs compared to the money that our hard work and sacrifice continues to produce for Delta Air Lines.
The pilots that you collectively represent know that our company is doing the same thing that most companies are doing in this high cash flow environment. They are taking the wealth that we produce and buying back stock and paying down debt. They are not doing this out of the kindness of their hearts; they are doing this to protect the company from future economic down turn and hostile take-over. I thank Richard Anderson for the work that he has done to stabilize our jobs into the unlimited future; however, this stabilizing of the company has brought upper management tremendous wealth while we are still working for wages that give us less buying power, working more hours than we did 14 years ago.
Ladies and Gentlemen the very reason that we organize, the very reason that we unionize, the very reason that we are part of the Airline Pilots Association is to keep large corporations from taking advantage of our life’s work and dedication to this profession.
Now you, our representatives are in control of a very precious commodity, your members. This contract is not being negotiated solely for the Delta pilots; it is being negotiated for the airline pilot profession itself. All pilot groups represented by the Airline Pilots Association are looking to you to determine whether being a part of this association is a valid way to secure the future for themselves and their families. The young men and women that are considering airline pilot as a career are watching these negotiations. Airline pilot groups around the world, even the ones not represented by ALPA, are looking to see if you can restore this profession.
Ladies and Gentlemen I end my writing by saying with Great Determination because I want you, my Representation to succeed, for the Delta pilots, for the pilots of ALPA, and for the airline pilot profession as a whole. But if you fail to realize that we are the golden goose, if you fail to make the company realize that we are the golden goose, the majority of the pilots that I talk to say they will seek other representation.
The outcome of these negotiations will determine whether this profession can be restored or whether it is destine for sub-standard wages forever. There will never been another time like this in history. We, the Delta Airline Pilots stand behind you and wish you great success, as we wait for this next TA. I want to personally thank each one of you for your hard work and dedication to the Delta pilots.
Fraternally and With Great Determination,
Jimmy Johnson
7ER ATL
Representatives and Officers of the Delta Airline Pilots Association,
My fellow pilots and I are aware that there is to be a special MEC meeting tomorrow the 21st of April. There is something that we would like all of you to consider at that meeting. I have worked very hard to get the pilots of Delta Air Lines to engage with their representation. Unfortunately, a very large number of pilots don’t want to talk to you. They only want to see results.
I am a true volunteer in the fact that I don’t get paid for this. Even the P2P volunteers get paid for attending training sessions. Me, I just want what is best for our pilots, our association, and the flying public. The pilots that I talk to tell me that this negotiation is very different from contract 2012. Our pilots have educated themselves. They have looked at the SEC filings of the company. They have read the reports from Wall Street. They know that restoring our pay and benefits to levels equal to what we had before 9-11, is mere crumbs compared to the money that our hard work and sacrifice continues to produce for Delta Air Lines.
The pilots that you collectively represent know that our company is doing the same thing that most companies are doing in this high cash flow environment. They are taking the wealth that we produce and buying back stock and paying down debt. They are not doing this out of the kindness of their hearts; they are doing this to protect the company from future economic down turn and hostile take-over. I thank Richard Anderson for the work that he has done to stabilize our jobs into the unlimited future; however, this stabilizing of the company has brought upper management tremendous wealth while we are still working for wages that give us less buying power, working more hours than we did 14 years ago.
Ladies and Gentlemen the very reason that we organize, the very reason that we unionize, the very reason that we are part of the Airline Pilots Association is to keep large corporations from taking advantage of our life’s work and dedication to this profession.
Now you, our representatives are in control of a very precious commodity, your members. This contract is not being negotiated solely for the Delta pilots; it is being negotiated for the airline pilot profession itself. All pilot groups represented by the Airline Pilots Association are looking to you to determine whether being a part of this association is a valid way to secure the future for themselves and their families. The young men and women that are considering airline pilot as a career are watching these negotiations. Airline pilot groups around the world, even the ones not represented by ALPA, are looking to see if you can restore this profession.
Ladies and Gentlemen I end my writing by saying with Great Determination because I want you, my Representation to succeed, for the Delta pilots, for the pilots of ALPA, and for the airline pilot profession as a whole. But if you fail to realize that we are the golden goose, if you fail to make the company realize that we are the golden goose, the majority of the pilots that I talk to say they will seek other representation.
The outcome of these negotiations will determine whether this profession can be restored or whether it is destine for sub-standard wages forever. There will never been another time like this in history. We, the Delta Airline Pilots stand behind you and wish you great success, as we wait for this next TA. I want to personally thank each one of you for your hard work and dedication to the Delta pilots.
Fraternally and With Great Determination,
Jimmy Johnson
7ER ATL
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