Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
02-09-2015, 03:16 PM
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No, it is patently unfair to construct a question asking what PS is worth in Pay only. That isn't spit balling. Spit balling would require an acknowledgement the entire PWA is up for improvement and suggestions for where best to use a newfound asset to leverage contractual gains. The premise of his question forces me to acknowledge that PS can only be leveraged to improve pay.
Seeing as exchanging PS for compensation "only" would be foolhardy, then if we were to concede all PS back to the company in 2015 what type contractual gains/improvements would you like to see in broad specifics?
Basically what is PS worth to us in you opinion?
Furthermore, your not testifying in front of Congress, so relax we are all just trying to have an adult discussion here.
02-09-2015, 03:27 PM
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02-09-2015, 03:37 PM
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Does this ever work for you LeineLodge? When you start off a response this way, do people say: "Oh, I sure don't want LeineLodge to have this opinion of me so I better ignore clear evidence so LeineLodge will like me again."
I like the idea of another ALPA PAC. We've already got this one that lives for electing far left liberals, so I propose the ALPA SAC (for members that still have a pair
). The ALPA SAC would support conservative politicians who believe in larger liberty and smaller government. Then we could both make our "pilot partisan" cases to our respective legislators. Competition!
See above.
Carl
Carl, how do you suggest we combat the many threats facing our profession? Do we only choose to engage those politicians that match our own individual ideologies (impossible btw with such a large pilot group)? Or would a better strategy be to attempt to engage wherever an opportunity presents itself to further our careers?
). The ALPA SAC would support conservative politicians who believe in larger liberty and smaller government. Then we could both make our "pilot partisan" cases to our respective legislators. Competition!Carl
02-09-2015, 03:51 PM
Straight QOL, homie
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
Posts: 4,202
I propose the ALPA SAC (for members that still have a pair). The ALPA SAC would support conservative politicians who believe in larger liberty and smaller government. Then we could both make our "pilot partisan" cases to our respective legislators. Competition!
Carl
). The ALPA SAC would support conservative politicians who believe in larger liberty and smaller government. Then we could both make our "pilot partisan" cases to our respective legislators. Competition!Carl
I'd join the SAC's equivilent of the Behncke Circle tonight!
I'd like to order a "My SAC Speaks for Me" bag tag.
02-09-2015, 04:19 PM
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Position: NYC A320 FO
Posts: 65
So you reject the notion of a PS equivalence to Pay, but you're adamant we should give up PS.
And you say PS isn't compensation. So you think we should just give up PS.
OK
Digesting......
Digesting...........
Uhhhhhhh, so if I'm following you, and maybe your mind is just on another level, like a Stephen Hawking level and I'm just a dumb pilot....but, ...... uhhhhh.....Ok...wait...let me....
Maybe I drank too much NyQuil, because I'm not quite following you.....
You think we should give up Profit Sharing, but for some evil genius reason that I'm incapable of figuring out, and you don't think there should be any increase in pay for it....(I think I'm catching on...light bulb is starting to flicker!)...Because, because...yeah, I got it...because PROFIT SHARING DOLLARS AREN'T COMPENSATION! Look at me! I'm in on the scheme....Yeah, Profit Sharing isn't compensation! No, no, we don't do something stupid like think we should give it up for something silly like pay rates...that would be foolhardy. We just get rid of it and refuse to put a number against what we think we should get in return. Holy S#!t you're a genius! Please tell me you're on the Negotiating Committee.
(Edit: Just woke up from my blissful numb minding, acid like euphoric, NyQuil induced state of clarity; you want to give it up for $5000 like you said a while back in your original manifesto about PS. The world is even clearer now....now I know what self-actualization is all about.)
And you say PS isn't compensation. So you think we should just give up PS.
OK
Digesting......
Digesting...........
Uhhhhhhh, so if I'm following you, and maybe your mind is just on another level, like a Stephen Hawking level and I'm just a dumb pilot....but, ...... uhhhhh.....Ok...wait...let me....
Maybe I drank too much NyQuil, because I'm not quite following you.....
You think we should give up Profit Sharing, but for some evil genius reason that I'm incapable of figuring out, and you don't think there should be any increase in pay for it....(I think I'm catching on...light bulb is starting to flicker!)...Because, because...yeah, I got it...because PROFIT SHARING DOLLARS AREN'T COMPENSATION! Look at me! I'm in on the scheme....Yeah, Profit Sharing isn't compensation! No, no, we don't do something stupid like think we should give it up for something silly like pay rates...that would be foolhardy. We just get rid of it and refuse to put a number against what we think we should get in return. Holy S#!t you're a genius! Please tell me you're on the Negotiating Committee.
(Edit: Just woke up from my blissful numb minding, acid like euphoric, NyQuil induced state of clarity; you want to give it up for $5000 like you said a while back in your original manifesto about PS. The world is even clearer now....now I know what self-actualization is all about.)
As for the annuity, I know we're not getting a pension like C2K but I'd like to read our NC obtained a Annuity for EVERY pilot which might go so far as an additional 20K a year in retirement for a 30 year career. Maybe it runs out if you live to 90. So what? Its a good idea and it benefits ALL of us instead of just a few. I don't need it but it helps those who do.
PS is a big shiny box and its got an allure I give you that. But its a concession. Pure and simple. A concession we made to prevent a worse outcome. We need to fix that pronto.
02-09-2015, 04:37 PM
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Supposedly the company is saying PS and scope will remain untouched in C2015. We shall see, but that would make sense. Sure they hate writing out that check PS but they only have to write it out if they have cash.
Kind of like having a car payment that you only have to make if you make more than you spent. That's a good deal.
Kind of like having a car payment that you only have to make if you make more than you spent. That's a good deal.
02-09-2015, 04:50 PM
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Posts: 12,487
Who's we Hixdog? Is it the same DALPA Echo chamber "we" that purposely distorts what people say in the hopes to portray them as too unreasonable to be listened to? It's old and tired Hixdog. I've stated on many occasions where I think ALPA has excelled.
They do indeed give to both sides...but overwhelmingly in favor of far left liberal democrats. It's a plainly sophomoric strategy when the side you didn't support is in power...and now you want them to protect OUR jobs.
See above. You're obviuously wed to the strategy of trying to maximize participation from conservative pilots to give money to liberal democrats by falsely claiming to be "pilot partisan." I don't know if it makes you feel better or not, but I couldn't keep up the charade the way you do.
Carl
Carl
02-09-2015, 04:54 PM
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Joined APC: Jul 2007
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Posts: 1,707
Really? Sarcasm? I've laid out my "manifesto" in broad strokes. Yes, I'd like to see C2K restored as a starter toward "Restoring the Profession". If we're in fact "Takin' it Back" it means presenting a pay scale that demands recognition of our skillset. PS is not part of that recognition. I believe that offering PS as a trade is a losing strategy because it plays into managements (and the NMB) position that PS is compensation. The idea that PS will never be as big a bargaining chip as it will be next week is real. If we squander that leverage we might as well lay the bet on if that's the case. And I've said that too in my letter to my reps.
As for the annuity, I know we're not getting a pension like C2K but I'd like to read our NC obtained a Annuity for EVERY pilot which might go so far as an additional 20K a year in retirement for a 30 year career. Maybe it runs out if you live to 90. So what? Its a good idea and it benefits ALL of us instead of just a few. I don't need it but it helps those who do.
PS is a big shiny box and its got an allure I give you that. But its a concession. Pure and simple. A concession we made to prevent a worse outcome. We need to fix that pronto.
As for the annuity, I know we're not getting a pension like C2K but I'd like to read our NC obtained a Annuity for EVERY pilot which might go so far as an additional 20K a year in retirement for a 30 year career. Maybe it runs out if you live to 90. So what? Its a good idea and it benefits ALL of us instead of just a few. I don't need it but it helps those who do.
PS is a big shiny box and its got an allure I give you that. But its a concession. Pure and simple. A concession we made to prevent a worse outcome. We need to fix that pronto.
Fair enough. I don't agree with you, but I see some of your points.
I disagree that PS will not be as big a bargaining chip as it will this year. I think it will be even bigger next year (for most); a higher % at least.
I think that's why we need to leave it alone until we're done with this PWA negotiation.
I'd also prefer to take it in a straight up pay increase. My number: 20% for openers and 15% minimum when the NC walks away from the table.
02-09-2015, 04:56 PM
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Of course you do.
Carl
02-09-2015, 05:02 PM
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Regardless, the salient point here is that prior to profit sharing being reduced in C2012, there were NO indications that it was on the company's desire list. Furthermore, our reps specifically directed the NC to not touch profit sharing. The NC did it anyway. That's the rub.
Carl
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