Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
02-09-2015, 01:48 PM
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02-09-2015, 01:48 PM
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Position: CA
Posts: 1,207
I don't know how else to put it to you. I have shown the contractual language that proves Profit Sharing is part of SWAPA's negotiated compensation package. It can not be removed without a replacement. They can call that replacement compensation "double secret extra special pay" for all I care, but the fact remains that Profit Sharing is a contractually mandated compensation that cannot be removed without a replacement. Which portion of that fact do you not understand?
02-09-2015, 02:38 PM
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Position: NYC A320 FO
Posts: 65
So you come on here with your anti-PS agenda day after day after day and forum members are willing to engage you with a fair discussion, but when you're asked a simple, fair question you refuse to address it. Please, either man up and answer the question or move on to a different subject. Not answering it, but continuing on with your bloviating shows a lack of intellectual integrity and is quite annoying to the entire group.
02-09-2015, 02:45 PM
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PS isn't compensation.
GF
02-09-2015, 02:47 PM
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Posts: 429
I'm not sure what point you are making, but you are correct.
The legal and contractual structure of their plan is somewhat different than ours but its still basically the same thing. It's "at risk" compensation that varies with the company's profits.
The pilots participate in the corporate plan on the same basis as all other employees. Its a deeply ingrained part of their vaunted "culture" over there but yes, the corporation could theoretically end the plan if they wish.
If they do that however, the pilots have contractual protection. It would trigger an immediate reopening of the pilot contract to negotiate a "replacement" plan.
Their plan is also significantly more detailed and complex than ours.
Depending on individual tax circumstances, in some respects its a lot better.
Its geared more toward retirement savings rather than annual cash compensation.
Here's the Southwest plan:
Warning --> it will put you to sleep.
Southwest Airlines Co. ProfitSharing Plan
The legal and contractual structure of their plan is somewhat different than ours but its still basically the same thing. It's "at risk" compensation that varies with the company's profits.
The pilots participate in the corporate plan on the same basis as all other employees. Its a deeply ingrained part of their vaunted "culture" over there but yes, the corporation could theoretically end the plan if they wish.
If they do that however, the pilots have contractual protection. It would trigger an immediate reopening of the pilot contract to negotiate a "replacement" plan.
Their plan is also significantly more detailed and complex than ours.
Depending on individual tax circumstances, in some respects its a lot better.
Its geared more toward retirement savings rather than annual cash compensation.
Here's the Southwest plan:
Warning --> it will put you to sleep.
Southwest Airlines Co. ProfitSharing Plan
02-09-2015, 02:51 PM
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Posts: 3,655
02-09-2015, 02:53 PM
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Posts: 1,418
Since the ALPA PAC guys are out in full force spreading disinformation and hurling personal attacks, I'll just reply to all of them so as not to clog the thread:
ALPA PAC is there to support the election of very far left liberal democrats. ALPA is affiliated with the AFL-CIO which is also a very far left political organization. ALPA PAC's challenge has been how to get money from airline pilots (who are predominantly conservative politically) to reshape the legislative branch into a left wing political construct. ALPA PAC has chosen the method of calling their left wing partisan agenda "Pilot Partisan." Now they've taken it a step further with the claim that they're winning the Export/Import Bank and NAI agenda with their "Pilot Partisan" efforts. The truth is that any progress made has only been because labor's interests just happen to align with the interests of airline management. If not for that, this would already be lost like age 60 and the rest.
I fully support anyone in their desire to send money to back their political ideology. Just know that ALPA PAC dollars primarily support the electing of far left liberal democrats. Check for yourself on their list of non-incumbents they send money to. It is overwhelmingly in favor of far left politicians. If that's your desire, then ALPA PAC is for you.
Carl
ALPA PAC is there to support the election of very far left liberal democrats. ALPA is affiliated with the AFL-CIO which is also a very far left political organization. ALPA PAC's challenge has been how to get money from airline pilots (who are predominantly conservative politically) to reshape the legislative branch into a left wing political construct. ALPA PAC has chosen the method of calling their left wing partisan agenda "Pilot Partisan." Now they've taken it a step further with the claim that they're winning the Export/Import Bank and NAI agenda with their "Pilot Partisan" efforts. The truth is that any progress made has only been because labor's interests just happen to align with the interests of airline management. If not for that, this would already be lost like age 60 and the rest.
I fully support anyone in their desire to send money to back their political ideology. Just know that ALPA PAC dollars primarily support the electing of far left liberal democrats. Check for yourself on their list of non-incumbents they send money to. It is overwhelmingly in favor of far left politicians. If that's your desire, then ALPA PAC is for you.
Carl
02-09-2015, 02:55 PM
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You must remember, PS at SWA was their "retirement plan" when all the other majors were offering defined benefit pensions throughout the 80's, 90's, and until the majors all shed their pilot pensions in BK proceedings.
They had no retirement medical or defined pension plan, what they had was PS that went into a retirement vehicle if they chose plus some 401K matching.
They had no retirement medical or defined pension plan, what they had was PS that went into a retirement vehicle if they chose plus some 401K matching.
02-09-2015, 03:00 PM
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Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: 737 ATL
Posts: 3,506
Disclaimer -> I'm absolutely no expert. I just skimmed that massive document.
Maybe shoelu or full of luv can explain better.
BUT, it looks to me like some of their profit sharing can actually be "deferred" and placed in a trust so that more of it can come as "qualified" retirement money. ie= taxed like section 415 money rather than ordinary income.
Doing that comes with IRS strings attached of course. But it would be a nice option.
Maybe shoelu or full of luv can explain better.
BUT, it looks to me like some of their profit sharing can actually be "deferred" and placed in a trust so that more of it can come as "qualified" retirement money. ie= taxed like section 415 money rather than ordinary income.
Doing that comes with IRS strings attached of course. But it would be a nice option.
02-09-2015, 03:01 PM
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And you say PS isn't compensation. So you think we should just give up PS.
OK
Digesting......
Digesting...........
Uhhhhhhh, so if I'm following you, and maybe your mind is just on another level, like a Stephen Hawking level and I'm just a dumb pilot....but, ...... uhhhhh.....Ok...wait...let me....
Maybe I drank too much NyQuil, because I'm not quite following you.....
You think we should give up Profit Sharing, but for some evil genius reason that I'm incapable of figuring out, and you don't think there should be any increase in pay for it....(I think I'm catching on...light bulb is starting to flicker!)...Because, because...yeah, I got it...because PROFIT SHARING DOLLARS AREN'T COMPENSATION! Look at me! I'm in on the scheme....Yeah, Profit Sharing isn't compensation! No, no, we don't do something stupid like think we should give it up for something silly like pay rates...that would be foolhardy. We just get rid of it and refuse to put a number against what we think we should get in return. Holy S#!t you're a genius! Please tell me you're on the Negotiating Committee.
(Edit: Just woke up from my blissful numb minding, acid like euphoric, NyQuil induced state of clarity; you want to give it up for $5000 like you said a while back in your original manifesto about PS. The world is even clearer now....now I know what self-actualization is all about.)
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