Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
It is an assumption on my part that the company would want to skew a new DB to their favor and not giving credit for years already served would require 95% of us to work to 65 to get to 20-25 years. It also reduces your life expectancy to work past 60. (Do not even use our tables, use the ones that corporate America uses) It means that by making us work to 65 they payout would be less as you would live less.
It would be great until our next 1113C journey.
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
There are two means for management to exert tremendous leverage upon us. One is seniority (and the lack of portability thereof), and the other is a DB pension. We paid a very heavy toll when they used up all the leverage of the DB plan. Consequently, they cannot play that card again unless we let them.
The only people that might be tempted by such a scheme (and I believe the company is likely to offer a poor DB plan in Section 6) would be the few, ultra-senior people that are close enough to retirement that they would be tempted to risk everyone else's retirement, for the hope of getting away with it.
It's typical greed vs. logic, instant gratification vs. long-term interest, self-interest of a few vs. everyone else.
Good response. If we want more money for retirement, then let's by all means get more DC money, in our own name. I can't fathom anything more disturbing than going back to a DB plan again.
There are two means for management to exert tremendous leverage upon us. One is seniority (and the lack of portability thereof), and the other is a DB pension. We paid a very heavy toll when they used up all the leverage of the DB plan. Consequently, they cannot play that card again unless we let them.
The only people that might be tempted by such a scheme (and I believe the company is likely to offer a poor DB plan in Section 6) would be the few, ultra-senior people that are close enough to retirement that they would be tempted to risk everyone else's retirement, for the hope of getting away with it.
It's typical greed vs. logic, instant gratification vs. long-term interest, self-interest of a few vs. everyone else.
There are two means for management to exert tremendous leverage upon us. One is seniority (and the lack of portability thereof), and the other is a DB pension. We paid a very heavy toll when they used up all the leverage of the DB plan. Consequently, they cannot play that card again unless we let them.
The only people that might be tempted by such a scheme (and I believe the company is likely to offer a poor DB plan in Section 6) would be the few, ultra-senior people that are close enough to retirement that they would be tempted to risk everyone else's retirement, for the hope of getting away with it.
It's typical greed vs. logic, instant gratification vs. long-term interest, self-interest of a few vs. everyone else.
Funny thing is that almost all of them agreed with my logic when I laid out the case I had for them. It does not make sense now, and will not make sense in the future.
I like what Cathay does with their retirement money. You have the option of taking the 15% they contribute as normal income and pay the taxes on it and invest it outside of our traditional means. It should be an option we should look at. It makes sense for a lot of us!
But, there is nothing that says that DB plans have HAVE to be administered by the company though. Right? So, the company could be forced to contribute, but the union (ALPA) or some 3rd party COULD be the fiduciary.
I understand the tendancy to shy away from DB plans after the termination of the DAL plan and the freezing of the NWA plan. But, I hate the stand alone DC system we have now, because it pushes us to work as long as we can. Which as we know is 65 followed by an earlier "termination."
I'm for exploring ways to provide incentives to us to retire sooner rather than later. How that comes about, I don't care.
New K Now
I understand the tendancy to shy away from DB plans after the termination of the DAL plan and the freezing of the NWA plan. But, I hate the stand alone DC system we have now, because it pushes us to work as long as we can. Which as we know is 65 followed by an earlier "termination."
I'm for exploring ways to provide incentives to us to retire sooner rather than later. How that comes about, I don't care.
New K Now
But, there is nothing that says that DB plans have HAVE to be administered by the company though. Right? So, the company could be forced to contribute, but the union (ALPA) or some 3rd party COULD be the fiduciary.
I understand the tendancy to shy away from DB plans after the termination of the DAL plan and the freezing of the NWA plan. But, I hate the stand alone DC system we have now, because it pushes us to work as long as we can. Which as we know is 65 followed by an earlier "termination."
I'm for exploring ways to provide incentives to us to retire sooner rather than later. How that comes about, I don't care.
New K Now
I understand the tendancy to shy away from DB plans after the termination of the DAL plan and the freezing of the NWA plan. But, I hate the stand alone DC system we have now, because it pushes us to work as long as we can. Which as we know is 65 followed by an earlier "termination."
I'm for exploring ways to provide incentives to us to retire sooner rather than later. How that comes about, I don't care.
New K Now
The idea of having an association administer a DB is an idea that I would be willing to look at. Others unions do it, and it works well for them. There does not seem to be a lot of support for that at this time, but it would offer similar protections that a DC does. The company would have to deposit X dollars per period per pilot, and we could then dole it out. A lot of work would have to be done to make it work.
With the level of distrust of ALPA it would be an uphill battle, but one I could see ALPA doing. It would make sense from a numbers stand point. It would be very hard for the pilots to vote ALPA off the property if they had their retirement tied up........
Caution
A third-party administrator such as a large bank or insurance company would avoid conflicts of interest that might arise if the union did it. Worst-case scenario would be a situation like the infamous Teamsters' Central States Pension Fund.
This board has done a lot for our group! May it continue!
I am not sure where the 1700 number came from. It is not however a correct number for Delta. The ALPA proposal which will not be the final rule more then likely would require a modest increase in pilot manning at Delta. Somewhere in the area of 200 to 300 pilots. If it is watered down which is likely under the intense pressure from the ATA then the increase will be less. The Delta contract already requires much of what the new rule requires. The driving factors for pilot jobs at Delta are simple. How many total pilot block hours does the company have to man and what percentage of that ends up being credit time. Required Block hours plus credit time equals jobs. Even with the thousands of jobs we gave up via work rules and elimination of the cap the new ruling wont cause a big job boost at Delta. It may cause domestic pilots to work more days to get the same number of hours but it wont increase the number of pilots. Contractual changes in the next contract such as restoring vacation to pay and credit could make a huge difference but that is several years away at best.
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Boeing Hearing and Ergonomics Lab Rat, Night Shift
Posts: 1,724
how about this:
Duty = duty day
If I am somewhere because the company assigned me there/wants me there that's duty to me...
SC, 36hrs overnight, you name it you are not "free" to pursue whatever you wish...
How about TAFB/3 = Credit
Cheers
George
Duty = duty day
If I am somewhere because the company assigned me there/wants me there that's duty to me...
SC, 36hrs overnight, you name it you are not "free" to pursue whatever you wish...
How about TAFB/3 = Credit
Cheers
George
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: Boeing 757 First Officer and Cessna 182H financier
Posts: 106
For ACL
Acl,
I just pm'd you with a question.
Thanks in advance.
Tim
I just pm'd you with a question.
Thanks in advance.
Tim
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