LivingTheDream

New guy advise:

Learn your contract! I see guys authoritatively posting contract answers here that are absolutely incorrect.

Start with section 23 (that's your every day bread and butter section)... then every time you're about to do something, learn that part of the contract (i.e., bidding vacation, learn section 7; bidding for a paid move, learn section 6, etc.) I flew with two guys last year that lost paid cross country moves because they didn't know a VD got a paid move!

Since I bet greater than 70% of the guys don't ever learn their contract, you will be rewarded by a very significant boost in your effective seniority. I.e., I routinely get trips that are over a hundred or more numbers above my true seniority.

Good luck!

LivingTheDream

Terrorists attacking Canadians?! Everybody loves Canadians! (and Aussies and Kiwis!) Now the gloves are going to come off!

Carl Spackler

Nah, Barack Ebola will just refer to it as workplace violence. Then call OSHA and urge everyone to file for workers comp.

Carl

scambo1

Reeeaaallly?

Riigghhttt.


Could be taken the wrong way...I failed to bold the final sentence.

Elliot

I don't think that Barack Osama even knows where Canada is, unless he learned about it from the news media first. Like all other previous nine White House failures.

Jughead135

Yep--I'm well familiar with the learn-by-screwing-self method...! Before posting, I scrubbed both the Scheduling Reference Handbook and the PWA. I clearly see why I'm getting paid for the trip and that there's no recovery obligation. I guess the absence of language re any sort of offset is the answer to my question--and I don't yet trust myself with the PWA enough to rely on that kind of "negative" read.


That's EXACTLY what prompted my first question! I want to be savvy on this (among many other aspects I've yet to get my arms around)--how do I do that in this case, if there's no published indication of the LCA captains...?

Thanks again for the help!

Timbo

It "Pays" to be senior and know who the LCA's are, especially when there is a lot of movement going on!

Best example I ever saw was when the Number 1 F/O at Delta (in 1998) had 25+ years. We were flying together on a three day ATL-NRT-ATL, 27hr. trip, on the MD11 (I was a mid line holder F/O) and he was on a Green Slip.

When all 4 of us met at sign in and he told me he was on a GS, I said, "Nice for you..."

He said, "Oh but wait, there's more! I'm getting paid 4 times today!"

I said, "Hu? How?"

He said, "Two days ago, I dropped this same trip for an IOE, I immediately went to open time and found another IOE, white slipped this same trip for yesterday, an IOE, so I got out of that one too, and today they sent me out again, on a Green Slip!" So that first day, all 3 of the trips overlapped and he was getting paid for all of them!

He was getting paid for 4 days long haul flying (14 hours, ATL-NRT x 4!) on that one day!

I held both hands over my head and bowed down to his Supremeness, chanting, "I'm not worthy!"

He was making more than BOTH Captains, together, on that day!

When we all got done laughing about it, he said, "Not to worry, I'm paying for all your food and beer, but not for the Captains!"

I had known him since I first started. I first met him when we were both based in MIA, I was a brand new 727 F/E, and he was a senior 727 F/O. We had several layovers together back then and he took good care of me then too, but after MIA and BOS closed, we had not seen each other in quite a while.

I asked him why he didn't bid Capt. on the MD11, since he was senior to half the Captains on it.

He said he got a divorce a few years back and if he did bid Capt. his X Wife would get the pay raise, not him, but she couldn't touch all his Green Slip money!

So he stayed super senior as an F/O...until she remarried. Then he did bid Capt. on it, his first Capt. seat was on the MD11, then later he bid 777 Capt., then retired.

So yes, if you know how to work the system, a Senior F/O can make a lot more than a Capt.

Jughead135

Agreed on learning the contract--that's what I'm striving to do (see my response to scambo1).

I don't know what you mean by "effective seniority." Getting a trip 100+ numbers above your seniority--is that due to ineffective/inefficient bidding, or some other deficiency in contractology on the part of those senior to you in category? How do you quantify that? More to the point (since it's all about me), how do you suggest a newbie go about gaining "effective seniority"? I'm reading & re-reading the PBS Gouge, the PBS Bid Guide, the PCS Handbook, the Scheduling Reference Manual, and the PWA--am I missing any homework?

What about must-have software? I'm using the desktop PBS bidder & iCrewMax (iPhone version). Am I missing any sure-fire QoL and/or $$$ improvements in this area?

Thanks for the pointers!!

Timbo

Yes, that's exactly what he's saying.

Back when Vacation Slide first started, I was the only one in my category who knew how to do it, and as a 50% line holder, I was sliding my vacations over X-mass and T-day, both of which I could not hold in the initial vacation bidding.

There are a lot of loopholes in the contract, like Rolling Thunder on reserve, learn them and use them to your advantage.

scambo1

Just to reinforce what the mighty Timbo is saying, remember that junior Dtw 777 fo I mentioned getting G2 about a week ago? Well, he got G3 today.

Good for him.