Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
09-11-2014, 06:40 AM
Doesn't Get Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,598
TENI can't believe we are still talking about this.
09-11-2014, 06:42 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
Good responses, BTW.
Absent intervening conditions, like an imminent bankruptcy, network failure, or alter ego transfer; I believe category/status is status quo and should be applied. An Hawaiian 330A should be a 330A post merger.
Their pilots made the decision to pursue employment with a growing carrier and then had the good fortune to see that carrier grow it's wide body fleet. I made the decision to pursue an airline in my home town. It may have been more difficult to get hired at Delta (or NWA) but that really does not matter.
Why do pilots, who engage in routine arbitrage on homes, equities, cars and collectables think they should get anything other than market value for their wares in a merger? I can't sell my home for more than it is worth because it would be "fair." By the same token, if I buy a home in a neighborhood that goes to crap should another pilot have to supplement my sale?
Yes, both sides try to game the system to their advantage. Should we merge with Hawaiian I have no doubt very valid comparisons of earnings, quality of life, contracts and expectations will be made by both sides.
09-11-2014, 06:42 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: LAX ERA
Posts: 3,457
Allright, off to the Dental Hobby Shop........why does that sound like more fun than APC???
Just kidding, honest......see ya boyz later!!
Ferd
Just kidding, honest......see ya boyz later!!
Ferd
09-11-2014, 06:47 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2010
Position: B737NG-B
Posts: 203
What was interesting (to me) in this A/E was the lack of backfilling in the wide body categories. 4 DTW 777 A's moved down to ATL 777, none were replaced in DTW, net loss of 4 777 Capts. Several 777 B's left for other places, none were replaced.
In the past 18mo. 17 ATL 777 A's have retired, this bid only replace 10 of them. Net loss 7.
One 747 A went to SEA A330 A, obviously they weren't going to replace him.
With the parking of 4 747's this year, and 4 more next year, it's going to get ugly, as the top comes down to meet at the A330. Luckily we have some coming, so there should be room, but I don't think we are getting 8 new A330's in the next 18 mo, are we?
In the past 18mo. 17 ATL 777 A's have retired, this bid only replace 10 of them. Net loss 7.
One 747 A went to SEA A330 A, obviously they weren't going to replace him.
With the parking of 4 747's this year, and 4 more next year, it's going to get ugly, as the top comes down to meet at the A330. Luckily we have some coming, so there should be room, but I don't think we are getting 8 new A330's in the next 18 mo, are we?
09-11-2014, 06:50 AM
Doesn't Get Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,598
Im so sorry for adding to this SLI. Again, You (yes you too BAR) are all my brothers. SO let me stop beating around the bush and state my concern or desire. IT might be too radical but:
I DONT THINK THERE SHOULD BE ONE ALASKA OR HAWAIIAN PILOT PUT IN FRONT OF A DELTA PILOT, NOT ONE! Hah,, there I said it.
I know, I am not the only one that had a chance to work for either above. And I am willing to bet Delta and NWA were always higher on the career totem pole. I am very sure of this.
Good Day. Sorry about the PASSION!!
TEN
I DONT THINK THERE SHOULD BE ONE ALASKA OR HAWAIIAN PILOT PUT IN FRONT OF A DELTA PILOT, NOT ONE! Hah,, there I said it.
I know, I am not the only one that had a chance to work for either above. And I am willing to bet Delta and NWA were always higher on the career totem pole. I am very sure of this.
Good Day. Sorry about the PASSION!!
TEN
As far as the Alaska/Hawaiian deal goes, if we ever merge with either there is no way they will be stapled. If it goes to arbitration it will go as a category and class integration. That will put 07 hires at HA merged in with guys hired in the 90's.
09-11-2014, 06:51 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: Decoupled
Posts: 922
I'm so tired about you guys and the SLI. You go on and on...
Don't you people get it. It's not about you. It's all about me!
Don't you people get it. It's not about you. It's all about me!
09-11-2014, 06:52 AM
Doesn't Get Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,598
09-11-2014, 06:58 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2010
Position: B737NG-B
Posts: 203
09-11-2014, 07:12 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
Ten and FTB; are DC-9's (or 717's), 767-300ER's and A330-800 NEO's the same thing? Would you bid them all as equivalent aircraft?
The Delta/NWA merger, for the most part, ignored the differences in our pre-merger fleets, as FTB's chart very clearly shows. Had we integrated by category status we might have never found "peace." I believe this was a consideration in treating the NWA and Delta fleets as equivalents (with the exception of the 747 and 777).
We have an excellent group on our merger committee and if called on to serve I have no doubt they will put forward the best position for our pilot group.
09-11-2014, 07:23 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
I get where the 00/01 hires are coming from. The first thought I had when I looked at the list and saw 01 North guys around me was "that doesn't seem right". After looking at relative percentages, it made more sense, but I get how the DOH thing will always rub guys the wrong way. You guys have had to eat one WSS after another the last 15 years and I feel for ya.
As far as the Alaska/Hawaiian deal goes, if we ever merge with either there is no way they will be stapled. If it goes to arbitration it will go as a category and class integration. That will put 07 hires at HA merged in with guys hired in the 90's.
As far as the Alaska/Hawaiian deal goes, if we ever merge with either there is no way they will be stapled. If it goes to arbitration it will go as a category and class integration. That will put 07 hires at HA merged in with guys hired in the 90's.
Another reason why we need to attack the outsourcing of our jobs (and growth) to Air France / KLM and Virgin. In arbitration the growth (or sustainability) of our operation will be questioned by our partner.
Thus far, we have yet to see an objective indication that Delta is doing much other than liquidating our long haul fleet. ALPA says they've seen he future and it is bright (but they can't tell us about it and management could change their mind).
IMHO scope needs to be #1 in the contract survey.
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