Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
09-11-2014, 04:21 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,242
THats a hard pill to swallow. WHen that 2001 N hire got furloughed, some dude started training at All ATPs. That dude finished his ratings, got hired at Comair and then Delta picked him up in 2007/08. Now that 2008 hire is senior to the one that lost his job at the expense of DCI growth and 9/11. Life is not fair sometimes. Oh well. Beers on me for any 2001 hire!
Our seniority integration was done fairly, but there were some who got screwed. Not enough got screwed to make a difference, but hopefully moving forward, the ones that got screwed wont get screwed again. <---Im not one of those..FYI
TEN
Our seniority integration was done fairly, but there were some who got screwed. Not enough got screwed to make a difference, but hopefully moving forward, the ones that got screwed wont get screwed again. <---Im not one of those..FYI
TEN
09-11-2014, 04:33 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
THats a hard pill to swallow. WHen that 2001 N hire got furloughed, some dude started training at All ATPs. That dude finished his ratings, got hired at Comair and then Delta picked him up in 2007/08. Now that 2008 hire is senior to the one that lost his job at the expense of DCI growth and 9/11. Life is not fair sometimes. Oh well. Beers on me for any 2001 hire!
Our seniority integration was done fairly, but there were some who got screwed. Not enough got screwed to make a difference, but hopefully moving forward, the ones that got screwed wont get screwed again. <---Im not one of those..FYI
TEN
Our seniority integration was done fairly, but there were some who got screwed. Not enough got screwed to make a difference, but hopefully moving forward, the ones that got screwed wont get screwed again. <---Im not one of those..FYI
TEN
How many positions should a NWA pilot get to move up and how many positions would a Delta pilot need to be displaced to provide satisfaction?
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 09-11-2014 at 04:48 AM.
09-11-2014, 04:51 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
It is a lot like walking in the door to your home and finding a burglar who also just raped your wife, but a cop is there. You can't do anything correctly but you are violated beyond belief...why stresss on it ,,well if you have to ask then I guess you didn't loose very much.
..............
09-11-2014, 04:57 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
09-11-2014, 04:59 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
It is a lot like walking in the door to your home and finding a burglar who also just raped your wife, but a cop is there. You can't do anything correctly but you are violated beyond belief...why stresss on it ,,well if you have to ask then I guess you didn't loose very much.
What's the cop doing there? Is he the rapist? Does your wife look like Doug Steenland and the burglar left a sack of cash with about $20,000,000 in it? As for you, did you vote for this to happen? If so, was the said screwing consensual? I don't know about you, but as for Doug Steenland and I; our pants are coming off for anything more than about $10,000,000.00.
This metaphor confuses me.
Now, guess who the victim is going to be in this, not so metaphorical, example. ...
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 09-11-2014 at 05:11 AM.
09-11-2014, 05:16 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: 7ERB
Posts: 2,039
As a person looking at the list, I think the seniority list should have been combined pre 9/11 and then post 9/11. The 2000-2001 DOH pilots, should have never been placed behind 2007/08 DOH pilots. Not only did the 2000/2001 get furloughed, their seniority was put behind a pilot that could have potentially started their flying career (after 9/11) on the eve of the 2000/2001 furloughs (mainline shrinks, DCI expands). Bar!!!!-->Notice this has nothing to do with N or S. Its just what I think would have been "just". Regardless, no effects on me. Just cautious for future.
The point is, some 2007/08 received a great position. Keep it. Great. Enjoy. But let us learn for the future. In a future merger with HA or AK, lets make sure to count the lucky 2007/08 pilots with the 2000 and 2001 hires, so that the the 2000/01 pilots dont get another hit in seniority.
Thats it. Nothing is fair in life, understood. But a little minority of our pilot group got "seniority" shafted, lets not let it happen again.
Good afternoon, Boys!
TEN
09-11-2014, 05:18 AM
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,730
What was interesting (to me) in this A/E was the lack of backfilling in the wide body categories. 4 DTW 777 A's moved down to ATL 777, none were replaced in DTW, net loss of 4 777 Capts. Several 777 B's left for other places, none were replaced.
In the past 18mo. 17 ATL 777 A's have retired, this bid only replace 10 of them. Net loss 7.
One 747 A went to SEA A330 A, obviously they weren't going to replace him.
With the parking of 4 747's this year, and 4 more next year, it's going to get ugly, as the top comes down to meet at the A330. Luckily we have some coming, so there should be room, but I don't think we are getting 8 new A330's in the next 18 mo, are we?
In the past 18mo. 17 ATL 777 A's have retired, this bid only replace 10 of them. Net loss 7.
One 747 A went to SEA A330 A, obviously they weren't going to replace him.
With the parking of 4 747's this year, and 4 more next year, it's going to get ugly, as the top comes down to meet at the A330. Luckily we have some coming, so there should be room, but I don't think we are getting 8 new A330's in the next 18 mo, are we?
09-11-2014, 05:52 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
Ten,
You did not answer the questions.
How many positions should Delta pilots have lost to satisfy?
Was your story even true?
You made the statement, please explain your assertions.
On the other board the consensus seems to be that Delta pilots should have lost 2 positions and mid level NWA FO should be able to hold Captain. Others quickly pointed out that most 2007 Delta hires were displaced through two seats, unless they were already there by choice. The two mid to low seniority FO'S could hold Captain, but apparently not in the base and with the seniority they wanted.
The point was made that even by their own metrics, their outcome was better than they had expected at Northwest.
Still they want DOH. If they got that they got that they would want DOH plus an accelerator for attrition, without any regard for how much of NWA ' S network or fleet still exists.
In the absence of your response, we can assume you agree. Buy all the beer you want, it is your money.
I remained clear of that debate.
You did not answer the questions.
How many positions should Delta pilots have lost to satisfy?
Was your story even true?
You made the statement, please explain your assertions.
On the other board the consensus seems to be that Delta pilots should have lost 2 positions and mid level NWA FO should be able to hold Captain. Others quickly pointed out that most 2007 Delta hires were displaced through two seats, unless they were already there by choice. The two mid to low seniority FO'S could hold Captain, but apparently not in the base and with the seniority they wanted.
The point was made that even by their own metrics, their outcome was better than they had expected at Northwest.
Still they want DOH. If they got that they got that they would want DOH plus an accelerator for attrition, without any regard for how much of NWA ' S network or fleet still exists.
In the absence of your response, we can assume you agree. Buy all the beer you want, it is your money.
I remained clear of that debate.
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 09-11-2014 at 06:30 AM.
09-11-2014, 06:12 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: 7ERB
Posts: 2,039
Ten,
You did not answer the questions.
How many positions should Delta pilots have lost to satisfy?
Was your story even true?
You made the statement, please explain your assertions.
On the other board the consensus seems to be that Delta pilots should have lost 2 positions and mid level NWA FO should be able to hold Captain. Others quickly pointed out that most 2007 Delta hires were displaced through two seats, unless they were already there by choice. The two mid to low seniority FO'S could hold Captain, but apparently not in the base and with the seniority they wanted.
The point was made that even by their own metrics, their outcome was better than they had expected at Northwest.
Still they want DOH. If they got that they got that they would want DOH plus an accelerator for attrition, without any regard for how much of NWA ' S network or fleet still exists.
In the absence of your response, can we assume you agree?
You did not answer the questions.
How many positions should Delta pilots have lost to satisfy?
Was your story even true?
You made the statement, please explain your assertions.
On the other board the consensus seems to be that Delta pilots should have lost 2 positions and mid level NWA FO should be able to hold Captain. Others quickly pointed out that most 2007 Delta hires were displaced through two seats, unless they were already there by choice. The two mid to low seniority FO'S could hold Captain, but apparently not in the base and with the seniority they wanted.
The point was made that even by their own metrics, their outcome was better than they had expected at Northwest.
Still they want DOH. If they got that they got that they would want DOH plus an accelerator for attrition, without any regard for how much of NWA ' S network or fleet still exists.
In the absence of your response, can we assume you agree?
Bar,
I have no story. My concern is that going forward the 2000/2001 DOH pilots (group in the lucky 2007 hires) do not get put behind 2007 HA or AK pilots if a merger would happen.
Also, I am ok with the list, up to the point of 9/11 snap shot. In my opinion, pilots that got hired pre 9/11 should have never been put behind pilots who got hired after 9/11. It is my opinion. FTB, pointed the disparity out and I looked at the seniority list. This is not a N or S debate, this is a concern for the future. You and I are both Delta pilots, I am voicing my concern for a possible future merger.
By the way, I have no idea what the other board or positions are. Again, I am ok with the list pre 9/11. Post 9/11, from what I see, about 80 or so 2007 hires jumped ahead of DOH 2000/2001.
No story.
Have a great day. Dont let N or S bother you. We are all in the same boat. Lets protect it and enhance it when it comes to future mergers.
TEN
09-11-2014, 06:13 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,057
Sorry I hit a nerve. You must have been one of the "lucky" 2007/2008 hires.
As a person looking at the list, I think the seniority list should have been combined pre 9/11 and then post 9/11. The 2000-2001 DOH pilots, should have never been placed behind 2007/08 DOH pilots. Not only did the 2000/2001 get furloughed, their seniority was put behind a pilot that could have potentially started their flying career (after 9/11) on the eve of the 2000/2001 furloughs (mainline shrinks, DCI expands). Bar!!!!-->Notice this has nothing to do with N or S. Its just what I think would have been "just". Regardless, no effects on me. Just cautious for future.
The point is, some 2007/08 received a great position. Keep it. Great. Enjoy. But let us learn for the future. In a future merger with HA or AK, lets make sure to count the lucky 2007/08 pilots with the 2000 and 2001 hires, so that the the 2000/01 pilots dont get another hit in seniority.
Thats it. Nothing is fair in life, understood. But a little minority of our pilot group got "seniority" shafted, lets not let it happen again.
Good afternoon, Boys!
TEN
As a person looking at the list, I think the seniority list should have been combined pre 9/11 and then post 9/11. The 2000-2001 DOH pilots, should have never been placed behind 2007/08 DOH pilots. Not only did the 2000/2001 get furloughed, their seniority was put behind a pilot that could have potentially started their flying career (after 9/11) on the eve of the 2000/2001 furloughs (mainline shrinks, DCI expands). Bar!!!!-->Notice this has nothing to do with N or S. Its just what I think would have been "just". Regardless, no effects on me. Just cautious for future.
The point is, some 2007/08 received a great position. Keep it. Great. Enjoy. But let us learn for the future. In a future merger with HA or AK, lets make sure to count the lucky 2007/08 pilots with the 2000 and 2001 hires, so that the the 2000/01 pilots dont get another hit in seniority.
Thats it. Nothing is fair in life, understood. But a little minority of our pilot group got "seniority" shafted, lets not let it happen again.
Good afternoon, Boys!
TEN
NW hired around 200 (+/- 100) in the 07-08 timeframe making the pre 9/11 hires only 200 or so from the bottom of their list. Delta hired 600-800 (+/-100) in that same timeframe.
Yes, I feel for the furloughed guys after 9/11, but that hardship and emotion doesn't change the fact that those guys were still at the very bottom of their list.
Couple that with the disappearing DC9s and 742s, and there wasn't much case for integrating them above the 07 south hires.
Hashed out and decided by an IMPARTIAL party.
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