Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
09-07-2014, 05:23 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,462
No leverage is necessary, as this is not a leverageable issue. I can't reconcile just who we are trying to protect here. It is a pretty senor airplane. Not as "old" as the 777, but old nonetheless. 4 are leaving, and that is all that has been officially announced. Let's say that's 50 displacements for discussion. The bottom 25 cannot hold the 777, and are probably not 63, so they ain't leaving. They will displace anyway. OR... you get 25 other guys with retirement packages firmly in hand to walk away. The 25 are saved and get to go on flying for NWA for a few more years. Then the next batch comes along. What then? Oh... but the fences will be down by then....
What if they displace? So what. The 747s are not going away tomorrow, so when the ones that remain DO retire, they will probably be able to go back.... or not, because the fences will be down by then and they are likely not senior enough to hold it. Hmmmmmm.
If this skips seniority, it is flat out wrong.
This whole thing REEKS of a GASSS KLOWD.
What if they displace? So what. The 747s are not going away tomorrow, so when the ones that remain DO retire, they will probably be able to go back.... or not, because the fences will be down by then and they are likely not senior enough to hold it. Hmmmmmm.
If this skips seniority, it is flat out wrong.
This whole thing REEKS of a GASSS KLOWD.
My prediction is if they needed to get rid of 50 (for 4 aircraft), there will still be displacements coming in early 2015, as the guys most likely to take the ER will be the 747 Captains over age 64, meaning they haven't really solved the manning issue. And when sorted by age, the 50th oldest 747A doesn't turn 65 until Sep 2017, three years from now. They're not gonna hold guys that long.
09-07-2014, 05:26 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 767A
Posts: 791
09-07-2014, 05:26 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,462
As far as the leverage -- I don't know what we should get because I don't have the cost figures. ALPA presumably does. I have lots of suggestions. Instead of paying all the money to 25 of the most senior captains why don't we give a little to everyone. Make vacation pay 3:30. Bump international override by a few cents. etc. etc. Take your pick.
09-07-2014, 05:28 AM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
Frankly, I agree that I don't like the skipping seniority part -- but it makes zero economic sense to do it straight seniority wise, so that was never a realistic option. You'd have a hundred non-747 guys, who are 64+ take the money and run and it just creates a massive training waterfall.
My prediction is if they needed to get rid of 50 (for 4 aircraft), there will still be displacements coming in early 2015, as the guys most likely to take the ER will be the 747 Captains over age 64, meaning they haven't really solved the manning issue. And when sorted by age, the 50th oldest 747A doesn't turn 65 until Sep 2017, three years from now. They're not gonna hold guys that long.
My prediction is if they needed to get rid of 50 (for 4 aircraft), there will still be displacements coming in early 2015, as the guys most likely to take the ER will be the 747 Captains over age 64, meaning they haven't really solved the manning issue. And when sorted by age, the 50th oldest 747A doesn't turn 65 until Sep 2017, three years from now. They're not gonna hold guys that long.
09-07-2014, 05:30 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,462
Look at the ages - available by downloading the most recent seniority list off Deltanet. Attrition would take 2-3 years; Delta's not gonna wait that long, so at least some displacements would be likely.
09-07-2014, 05:30 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Frankly, I agree that I don't like the skipping seniority part -- but it makes zero economic sense to do it straight seniority wise, so that was never a realistic option. You'd have a hundred non-747 guys, who are 64+ take the money and run and it just creates a massive training waterfall.
My prediction is if they needed to get rid of 50 (for 4 aircraft), there will still be displacements coming in early 2015, as the guys most likely to take the ER will be the 747 Captains over age 64, meaning they haven't really solved the manning issue. And when sorted by age, the 50th oldest 747A doesn't turn 65 until Sep 2017, three years from now. They're not gonna hold guys that long.
My prediction is if they needed to get rid of 50 (for 4 aircraft), there will still be displacements coming in early 2015, as the guys most likely to take the ER will be the 747 Captains over age 64, meaning they haven't really solved the manning issue. And when sorted by age, the 50th oldest 747A doesn't turn 65 until Sep 2017, three years from now. They're not gonna hold guys that long.
Then tell them to get in a displacement bid.
I don't think it will target anyone over 64. I'll betcha it will be guys between 62 and 64, because the 64 year old guys won't ever have to displace anyway.
09-07-2014, 05:31 AM
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Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,299
Because then those senior guys would not leave early, and isn't that the whole point? Or are you saying to give the rest of us something as well?
09-07-2014, 05:36 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Actually I'll go one step further, If WE went to the company asking for this, we wasted future leverage opportunity by asking for something out of section 6. Again, I am not saying we had any leverage in THIS event, but it could have been a throwaway in later negotiations.
09-07-2014, 05:36 AM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
09-07-2014, 05:38 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,462
But I have to ask, is that better for you and me than the ER?
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