Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
08-27-2014, 10:36 AM
Doesn't Get Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,598
My Scoop speaks for me!
Clearly, the Reserve system's trip into a Marxist-Leninist bent post 9/11 was punitive to many pilots that had already pre-paid their dues under the old system, and were subsequently unable to get any credit for their seniority, the value of which plummeted to zero. Our devalued rights, which were converted into some new crap called RAW currency, which was given freely to all. Which made a new hire just as much of a prince or a peasant as anyone else, and so it was that ftb and other newhires got to think of themselves as equally entitled to flying as someone who HAD been furloughed, HAD lost the game of LOW/HIGH yellows when it was their turn, but now couldn't use their seniority at all to compete for flying anymore. We got shafted, but their perspective on this matter was based on the then-existing system of 2007.
So, to the newhires, past dues that went unrewarded went completely unnoticed.
When we finally designed and implemented something better, they 2007 guys cry bitter tears over the fact that there is LITTLE seniority bias to the Reserve system (emphasis on "little"), and they can't bear the thought of losing the artificial equality they had come to live under, never mind that it was an accident of a history they didn't share in. They sure don't mind the fact that a junior guy flies a trip they don't want, but they can't bear the idea of a senior guy sitting a little longer in a different raw bucket. It messes up their brains, this slightly unequal screw-job, even though it is entirely appropriate, and STILL fails to properly pay us back.
My thinking is that when all you're obsessed about is making sure we're all getting screwed equally, you're in the wrong game. When we design a system, as we have that is CLEARLY much better in the aggregate for Reserves we win. And when we design it with a LITTLE seniority bias, we are only doing what is right.
ftb's problem isn't that he got screwed when he was junior (he didn't), is that he has too little respect for those of us that got screwed when we were junior AND when we were more senior.
Clearly, the Reserve system's trip into a Marxist-Leninist bent post 9/11 was punitive to many pilots that had already pre-paid their dues under the old system, and were subsequently unable to get any credit for their seniority, the value of which plummeted to zero. Our devalued rights, which were converted into some new crap called RAW currency, which was given freely to all. Which made a new hire just as much of a prince or a peasant as anyone else, and so it was that ftb and other newhires got to think of themselves as equally entitled to flying as someone who HAD been furloughed, HAD lost the game of LOW/HIGH yellows when it was their turn, but now couldn't use their seniority at all to compete for flying anymore. We got shafted, but their perspective on this matter was based on the then-existing system of 2007.
So, to the newhires, past dues that went unrewarded went completely unnoticed.
When we finally designed and implemented something better, they 2007 guys cry bitter tears over the fact that there is LITTLE seniority bias to the Reserve system (emphasis on "little"), and they can't bear the thought of losing the artificial equality they had come to live under, never mind that it was an accident of a history they didn't share in. They sure don't mind the fact that a junior guy flies a trip they don't want, but they can't bear the idea of a senior guy sitting a little longer in a different raw bucket. It messes up their brains, this slightly unequal screw-job, even though it is entirely appropriate, and STILL fails to properly pay us back.
My thinking is that when all you're obsessed about is making sure we're all getting screwed equally, you're in the wrong game. When we design a system, as we have that is CLEARLY much better in the aggregate for Reserves we win. And when we design it with a LITTLE seniority bias, we are only doing what is right.
ftb's problem isn't that he got screwed when he was junior (he didn't), is that he has too little respect for those of us that got screwed when we were junior AND when we were more senior.
08-27-2014, 10:41 AM
Doesn't Get Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,598
08-27-2014, 10:43 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
I would argue that almost everyone I know acknowledges your point: the current system is better than in 2007. It's debatable whether it's good enough, but it's pretty clearly better.
The only sort of complaints I see about the bucket system is that sometimes, when you're not staffed too tight, a senior guy that's in the same bucket gets to stay home for a brief reprieve.
I think we agree he deserves it.
08-27-2014, 10:51 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
That doesn't answer the question. I get it that narrobody is Delta's *****. But that still doesn't tell me how many guys are regularly being driven to 99 hours.
08-27-2014, 10:59 AM
Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,991
08-27-2014, 11:12 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
08-27-2014, 11:13 AM
Doesn't Get Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,598
Right. Just so we're straight, I'm not making any blanket statements about 2007 guys, or about ftb. He's a smart guy and a great APC contributor. I'm only mentioning him by name because he's very vocal on this topic. And wrong, IMO.
I would argue that almost everyone I know acknowledges your point: the current system is better than in 2007. It's debatable whether it's good enough, but it's pretty clearly better.
The only sort of complaints I see about the bucket system is that sometimes, when you're not staffed too tight, a senior guy that's in the same bucket gets to stay home for a brief reprieve.
I think we agree he deserves it.
I would argue that almost everyone I know acknowledges your point: the current system is better than in 2007. It's debatable whether it's good enough, but it's pretty clearly better.
The only sort of complaints I see about the bucket system is that sometimes, when you're not staffed too tight, a senior guy that's in the same bucket gets to stay home for a brief reprieve.
I think we agree he deserves it.
My biggest complaint about the bucket system is that it is still tied to this almost impossible to figure out RAW score. I think it should somehow be tied to credit hours and we should get an extra 2 hours credit for every SC we sit. I also think we should have a certain percentage of the reserve guys be able to bid for LC only lines.
08-27-2014, 11:15 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
You guys hating on 07 hires, and I hate them too their senior to me, but you realize that reserve is a category by category thing right? What about all of the 1991 hires sitting reserve as Captains, didn't they pay their dues? Getting back at the spoiled 07 hires and after via a pay your dues reserve system does nothing for a vast majority of those on reserve.
And frankly, a reserve system that gives a pilot a month off with pay is a reserve system the company can easily fix and be thankful that you showed where the fat was.
And frankly, a reserve system that gives a pilot a month off with pay is a reserve system the company can easily fix and be thankful that you showed where the fat was.
08-27-2014, 11:16 AM
ATL A320 B
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Position: No longer MEM or 9, but still a guy.
Posts: 238
08-27-2014, 11:18 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2013
Position: On the hotel shuttle
Posts: 5,907
Deleted, FTB was too quick.
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