Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
08-19-2014, 08:35 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: 7er
Posts: 1,673
08-19-2014, 08:42 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Urban chicken rancher.
Posts: 6,070
A better question is why you have defended him.
January 31, 2011
Captain Lee Moak
President
Air Line Pilots Association, Int’l 1625 Massachusetts Ave., N.W. Washington, D.C. 20036
Captain Tim O’Malley
Chairman
Delta Master Executive Council
100 Hartsfield Centre Parkway, Suite 800 Atlanta, GA 30354
Lee and Tim,
I wanted to take a moment to let you know that I recently responded to an outreach from Delta First Officer Tim Caplinger who contacted me in his capacity as the leader of the Delta Pilots Association.
I made it perfectly clear to Mr. Caplinger that in my opinion, a breakaway of the Delta pilots from ALPA would likely prove highly disadvantageous for the Delta pilots and destructive to our profession as a whole. When APA broke away from ALPA in 1963 the labor environment for airline pilots in the United States was far different than it is today. JFK was the President at the time and had recently come out strongly in favor of organized pilots in the Southern Airways dispute of 1962. American’s pilots prospered during the benign days of regulation, but that prosperity ended abruptly with the onset of deregulation.
I have always thought it is better to work within the existing political framework to achieve reform than by wreaking havoc upon one’s organization. After I was hired at American, I led the battle against the two-tier pay system – not by trying to tear things apart, but by working within the system. Ultimately, with patience and perseverance, we prevailed.
I also expressed my significant concerns about the law firm Mr. Caplinger’s group has enlisted as their counsel. The Allied Pilots Association had a previous relationship with the Seham law firm and eventually dismissed them. Shortly after the Sehams were dismissed at APA, they began coordinating with a pro-management dissident group at American called the AICA which has been trying to destabilize and decertify APA ever since. They are also involved on American’s property in a decertification effort with the TWU and were heavily involved with the disaster which occurred with the mechanics at Northwest.
I further recommended that Mr. Caplinger carefully evaluate his group’s present course of action. I know that institutional inertia is a difficult thing to overcome, however I think that a Delta breakaway from ALPA would further fracture and destabilize our profession and play right into the hands of management teams across the industry. Lee and Tim, as you are well aware, I am working in exactly the opposite direction – trying to move pilot unions closer together as evidenced by the fact that APA has recently signed a services agreement with ALPA to help APA negotiate a new collective bargaining agreement.
Finally, I asked Mr. Caplinger to cease misrepresenting my position as part of his recruitment efforts. I stand strongly behind the leadership at ALPA and have been working diligently to forge closer cooperation and coordination between APA and ALPA. To be clear, I will wield my veto power at CAPA to defeat any attempts by the DPA to make any sort of overtures to CAPA.
Sincerely,
Captain Dave Bates
President, APA

January 31, 2011
Captain Lee Moak
President
Air Line Pilots Association, Int’l 1625 Massachusetts Ave., N.W. Washington, D.C. 20036
Captain Tim O’Malley
Chairman
Delta Master Executive Council
100 Hartsfield Centre Parkway, Suite 800 Atlanta, GA 30354
Lee and Tim,
I wanted to take a moment to let you know that I recently responded to an outreach from Delta First Officer Tim Caplinger who contacted me in his capacity as the leader of the Delta Pilots Association.
I made it perfectly clear to Mr. Caplinger that in my opinion, a breakaway of the Delta pilots from ALPA would likely prove highly disadvantageous for the Delta pilots and destructive to our profession as a whole. When APA broke away from ALPA in 1963 the labor environment for airline pilots in the United States was far different than it is today. JFK was the President at the time and had recently come out strongly in favor of organized pilots in the Southern Airways dispute of 1962. American’s pilots prospered during the benign days of regulation, but that prosperity ended abruptly with the onset of deregulation.
I have always thought it is better to work within the existing political framework to achieve reform than by wreaking havoc upon one’s organization. After I was hired at American, I led the battle against the two-tier pay system – not by trying to tear things apart, but by working within the system. Ultimately, with patience and perseverance, we prevailed.
I also expressed my significant concerns about the law firm Mr. Caplinger’s group has enlisted as their counsel. The Allied Pilots Association had a previous relationship with the Seham law firm and eventually dismissed them. Shortly after the Sehams were dismissed at APA, they began coordinating with a pro-management dissident group at American called the AICA which has been trying to destabilize and decertify APA ever since. They are also involved on American’s property in a decertification effort with the TWU and were heavily involved with the disaster which occurred with the mechanics at Northwest.
I further recommended that Mr. Caplinger carefully evaluate his group’s present course of action. I know that institutional inertia is a difficult thing to overcome, however I think that a Delta breakaway from ALPA would further fracture and destabilize our profession and play right into the hands of management teams across the industry. Lee and Tim, as you are well aware, I am working in exactly the opposite direction – trying to move pilot unions closer together as evidenced by the fact that APA has recently signed a services agreement with ALPA to help APA negotiate a new collective bargaining agreement.
Finally, I asked Mr. Caplinger to cease misrepresenting my position as part of his recruitment efforts. I stand strongly behind the leadership at ALPA and have been working diligently to forge closer cooperation and coordination between APA and ALPA. To be clear, I will wield my veto power at CAPA to defeat any attempts by the DPA to make any sort of overtures to CAPA.
Sincerely,
Captain Dave Bates
President, APA

BTW, I've gone through some minor medical issues this summer and DALPA has been outstanding. Thanks guys!
08-19-2014, 08:44 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 328
Well, if you remember, when this was going on I was dealing with a serious family issue and therefore I know very little about it and care even less. I saw the data dump from their DNS tables and was asked for my opinion and I gave it to the person who asked.
I read the transcripts and filings as they become available but I have no idea of Mr. Private Writings and I really don't even know what "Mr. Private Writings" means. I assume you mean the pilot who allegedly hacked the website. I don't want to know ever who this is because I don't want to have anything to do with this sham case.
All I know is that if DPA had a shred of evidence that this person was directed by ALPA in any fashion to do this alleged "hacking" (which I don't believe occurred and I believe that DPA f-ed up their DNS entries and then tried to cover their incompetence) they would have sued ALPA because ALPA has more money than a single pilot does. Therefore, all your insinuations are pure BS because there is no evidence that ALPA was involved in any way. I only know that because DPA is not suing them.
But, hey, let's all jump on the crazy train and assume that DPA is correct. Let's say some Delta pilot hacked their website and posted nasty notes for a couple of days. How is my supposed future union going to act? Are they going to take his house away from him? Get him fired? Please let me know what our new "union", supposedly dedicated to Delta pilots, is going to do to him. Everyone involved in DPA should ask themselves some hard questions. What if in the future you decided you don't like DPA? Are they going to sue you and take your house because you criticized them or mocked them? Seriously, a union is supposed to protect pilots not drag them through the courts. This is simply disgusting behavior.
I will say it again. Every single time DPA puts out some missive about this case, it includes a "SERIOUS and URGENT" call for more funds. Coincidence? Let's all read the transcripts when they come out and find out exactly how badly DPA got spanked in court the other day. They "won" nothing. They were forced to conceal the identity of the pilot that ALPA knew about (and I don't) because ALPA tries to protect pilots and DPA tries to persecute them. It's pretty simple. Why should any pilot be stupid enough to give money to attack a fellow Delta pilot in court? Who are they going to go after next? Explain that please.
I read the transcripts and filings as they become available but I have no idea of Mr. Private Writings and I really don't even know what "Mr. Private Writings" means. I assume you mean the pilot who allegedly hacked the website. I don't want to know ever who this is because I don't want to have anything to do with this sham case.
All I know is that if DPA had a shred of evidence that this person was directed by ALPA in any fashion to do this alleged "hacking" (which I don't believe occurred and I believe that DPA f-ed up their DNS entries and then tried to cover their incompetence) they would have sued ALPA because ALPA has more money than a single pilot does. Therefore, all your insinuations are pure BS because there is no evidence that ALPA was involved in any way. I only know that because DPA is not suing them.
But, hey, let's all jump on the crazy train and assume that DPA is correct. Let's say some Delta pilot hacked their website and posted nasty notes for a couple of days. How is my supposed future union going to act? Are they going to take his house away from him? Get him fired? Please let me know what our new "union", supposedly dedicated to Delta pilots, is going to do to him. Everyone involved in DPA should ask themselves some hard questions. What if in the future you decided you don't like DPA? Are they going to sue you and take your house because you criticized them or mocked them? Seriously, a union is supposed to protect pilots not drag them through the courts. This is simply disgusting behavior.
I will say it again. Every single time DPA puts out some missive about this case, it includes a "SERIOUS and URGENT" call for more funds. Coincidence? Let's all read the transcripts when they come out and find out exactly how badly DPA got spanked in court the other day. They "won" nothing. They were forced to conceal the identity of the pilot that ALPA knew about (and I don't) because ALPA tries to protect pilots and DPA tries to persecute them. It's pretty simple. Why should any pilot be stupid enough to give money to attack a fellow Delta pilot in court? Who are they going to go after next? Explain that please.
Interesting statement from you, however, you did not answer the question.
The original question was (I changed "Mr Missive Writings" to "John Doe" and bolded it to avoid confusion):
"Are you saying that Mr. John Doe does not now hold, or hold at the time of the "hacking," any ALPA office, whether appointed or elected? Or that John Doe was not an "ALPA Volunteer" in any capacity at the time his "thoughts of a personal nature" were "intermingling" with DPA's website?"
Your original 5 paragraph answer, using precise legal wording now has me wondering.
It's a simple question. How about a simple "yes he was" or "no he was not" answer.
Inquiring minds want to know.
08-19-2014, 08:58 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,503
Alfa,
Interesting statement from you, however, you did not answer the question.
The original question was (I changed "Mr Missive Writings" to "John Doe" and bolded it to avoid confusion):
"Are you saying that Mr. John Doe does not now hold, or hold at the time of the "hacking," any ALPA office, whether appointed or elected? Or that John Doe was not an "ALPA Volunteer" in any capacity at the time his "thoughts of a personal nature" were "intermingling" with DPA's website?"
Your original 5 paragraph answer, using precise legal wording now has me wondering.
It's a simple question. How about a simple "yes he was" or "no he was not" answer.
Inquiring minds want to know.
Interesting statement from you, however, you did not answer the question.
The original question was (I changed "Mr Missive Writings" to "John Doe" and bolded it to avoid confusion):
"Are you saying that Mr. John Doe does not now hold, or hold at the time of the "hacking," any ALPA office, whether appointed or elected? Or that John Doe was not an "ALPA Volunteer" in any capacity at the time his "thoughts of a personal nature" were "intermingling" with DPA's website?"
Your original 5 paragraph answer, using precise legal wording now has me wondering.
It's a simple question. How about a simple "yes he was" or "no he was not" answer.
Inquiring minds want to know.
I will add this to my original post. If it turns out this person who misdirected the website had or has any Dalpa or ALPA connections, Mr. Seham will be filing a lawsuit.
Our dues money will go to defending it, and if that suit is lost, then even more of our dues money goes to Seham and Caplinger. Then I'm positively certain there will be even more ****ed people here.
Can you affirmatively state then, on the record here, that no one currently associated with Dalpa or formerly associated with Dalpa, had anything to do with the "hacking?"
I honestly believe that DPA is done if they unmask the individual and it is a singular person not associated with ALPA that was truly just misbehaving.
On the other hand, if it turns out that any of the misdirection had Dalpa ties, well then ALPA just breathed more life into the waning DPA movement.
You are very well connected in the MEC, and in a position to know. So, care to make that confirmation?
Oh, and I'll take no response from you as a denial, fair enough.
08-20-2014, 01:08 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,919
Personally, the constant bickering is getting old. One thing I will say, it's nice to get some "fresh newhire blood" on the list voting C2015. If anything it's a fresh perspective for our reps and pilot group.
08-20-2014, 04:28 AM
Straight QOL, homie
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
Posts: 4,202
got a hard no-fly day tomorrow; if I'm released at noon, can I get a green slip at, say, 1300?
thanks!
thanks!
08-20-2014, 04:30 AM
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Where ALPA's hatred for Seham began
Well, I've found the first time ALPA lost a legal battle with Seham. It was in the early 1960's when the pilots of American Airlines were represented by ALPA. The American pilots had set a strike deadline and ALPA national tried to subvert their member pilots at American by cutting off strike benefits, expelling their MEC officers from ALPA, cutting off their funding, then refusing to sign a contract that the American MEC ultimately obtained with management and the NMB.
With very little money left and mounting legal issues being launched by ALPA national against the American MEC, a young Harvard graduate by the name of ... Marty Seham came in to help. ALPA's court injunctions were beaten back. An agreement with management was signed which prevented the strike. A card drive was started to form a new union. The NMB allowed an election to replace ALPA. American pilots voted overwhelmingly to leave ALPA, and have been represented by APA ever since.
A link to this story is below. It's a long read, but a terrific piece of historical record. In fact, it shows me that ALPA national has learned very little in over 50 years:
The Details and Documentation
Carl
With very little money left and mounting legal issues being launched by ALPA national against the American MEC, a young Harvard graduate by the name of ... Marty Seham came in to help. ALPA's court injunctions were beaten back. An agreement with management was signed which prevented the strike. A card drive was started to form a new union. The NMB allowed an election to replace ALPA. American pilots voted overwhelmingly to leave ALPA, and have been represented by APA ever since.
A link to this story is below. It's a long read, but a terrific piece of historical record. In fact, it shows me that ALPA national has learned very little in over 50 years:
The Details and Documentation
Carl
08-20-2014, 04:34 AM
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
So let's assume the total cost per passenger for the average Delta cockpit is $6. The 50% pay increase we'd need right now for full restoration would be an additional $3 per passenger. Delta had no trouble inventing $25 bag fees out of thin air and collecting them. You're telling me they can't figure out a way to net an additional $3 per passenger (whether through revenue increases, cost cuts in other areas, or some combination) and be able to cover the cost of fully restoring our pay? If they could net the additional $3, full restoration of our pay would have ZERO effect on profits.
08-20-2014, 04:39 AM
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
08-20-2014, 04:44 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,596
You're sure about that? I've played around with the numbers on that quite a bit. Even did a little exercise at the end of last year where I estimated the number of passengers I carried for the year and divided by my total compensation. My cost last year was $2.98 per passenger.
So let's assume the total cost per passenger for the average Delta cockpit is $6. The 50% pay increase we'd need right now for full restoration would be an additional $3 per passenger. Delta had no trouble inventing $25 bag fees out of thin air and collecting them. You're telling me they can't figure out a way to net an additional $3 per passenger (whether through revenue increases, cost cuts in other areas, or some combination) and be able to cover the cost of fully restoring our pay? If they could net the additional $3, full restoration of our pay would have ZERO effect on profits.
So let's assume the total cost per passenger for the average Delta cockpit is $6. The 50% pay increase we'd need right now for full restoration would be an additional $3 per passenger. Delta had no trouble inventing $25 bag fees out of thin air and collecting them. You're telling me they can't figure out a way to net an additional $3 per passenger (whether through revenue increases, cost cuts in other areas, or some combination) and be able to cover the cost of fully restoring our pay? If they could net the additional $3, full restoration of our pay would have ZERO effect on profits.
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