Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
07-21-2014, 01:27 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Position: 7ERA
Posts: 950
Not sure about the 320, but the 717 went senior initially because of Crew Resources letting everyone know before the first bid that you would be getting the summer off with no planes to fly. By the time all of the 717s are here, I expect the seniority of that seat to fall right in line.
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07-21-2014, 01:39 PM
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Posts: 12,487
This is troubling since I know you know better. DALPA was asked by its members why they omitted our JV competitors in the contract comparisons leading up to C2012. ALPA had that pay data. ALPA said they did not want to publish it. They said their reason was that they were asked not to...while not producing any evidence of such communication. I found Air France's pay data in one minute and posted it here. It had everything to do with "didn't want." ALPA had the data, but didn't want to put it in the contract comparisons.
ALPA had the data. So did I. I published it here, ALPA wouldn't.
Read above and you'll this statement of yours is completely false. And since you're a current rep, that troubles me. I would have hoped as a current rep you would be fighting hard for an open and completely transparent contract comparison. Instead, you're here now setting us up for why we will yet again NOT see our JV competitors' contract details in our contract comparisons...even though ALPA has the data.
We don't know if that's a fact acl. It's clearly you're opinion, but please don't confuse your personal opinions with fact.
Carl
I am sure your consulting business does business in Europe and you have some working knowledge of the EU laws, and because of this, you know that their collective agreements are not public record like ours. I am sure you also know what the France tax rate is on the AF pilots and what their social benefits are in retirement.
The simple fact is when looking at total W-2, v take home pay, v negotiated benefits, v their socialized benefits in retirement, and then comparing theirs to ours, there are area we are better in and areas they are better in. I would not classify us as equals but the differences are noted.
Carl
07-21-2014, 01:47 PM
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Our JV is out of balance RIGHT NOW. Has been since March. We're now in the correction period, yet you and the rest of DALPA has been dead silent. Those are actual facts, and I KNOW you know it. So why did you say what you said above?
Carl
07-21-2014, 01:49 PM
:-)
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,339
The reason both management, AND the union reject RJ's, is because they would be the largest pilot group at mainline.
07-21-2014, 01:54 PM
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Bar,
I don't disagree with your points but where do we have influence in that list? Maybe indirectly on some but your points M/N are where the rubber meets the road so to speak. Tell me some out of the box thinking, how else are we supposed to get anything out of a contract violation if not to monetize it? If we negotiate stronger language what's to keep the company from violating that and then we are back at the same point...
Oh, and if this hasn't been mentioned before, I heard that RA decided to delay the RFP decision/order until December because of Airbus' decision to make the A330neo.
Denny
I don't disagree with your points but where do we have influence in that list? Maybe indirectly on some but your points M/N are where the rubber meets the road so to speak. Tell me some out of the box thinking, how else are we supposed to get anything out of a contract violation if not to monetize it? If we negotiate stronger language what's to keep the company from violating that and then we are back at the same point...
Oh, and if this hasn't been mentioned before, I heard that RA decided to delay the RFP decision/order until December because of Airbus' decision to make the A330neo.
Denny
Jobs aren't for sale. If scope provisions are violated, that scope provision needs to end as a result of successful grievance. Monetary penalties for everything else.
Carl
07-21-2014, 01:57 PM
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Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,595
Not sure about the 320, but the 717 went senior initially because of Crew Resources letting everyone know before the first bid that you would be getting the summer off with no planes to fly. By the time all of the 717s are here, I expect the seniority of that seat to fall right in line.
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As far as the other airframes the pay differences are small and growing categories are always junior to established fleets.
07-21-2014, 01:57 PM
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T Square,
The change since Mr. Woolman's day is that businesses can both grow and die simultaneously. Comair had over 5 billion in total Delta investment. It died while Delta continued on with little notice.
My point is, when Daddy starts abusing the children, Momma better watch her back.
It is ridiculous for any of us to assume that a transfer of flying to a cheaper entity within Delta's core business had nothing to do with the fact they are less expensive.
Comair, Mesa/Freedom, even ACA were corporate whack jobs in favor of newer, cheaper, children. Why would we ever assume we are safe?
The change since Mr. Woolman's day is that businesses can both grow and die simultaneously. Comair had over 5 billion in total Delta investment. It died while Delta continued on with little notice.
My point is, when Daddy starts abusing the children, Momma better watch her back.
It is ridiculous for any of us to assume that a transfer of flying to a cheaper entity within Delta's core business had nothing to do with the fact they are less expensive.
Comair, Mesa/Freedom, even ACA were corporate whack jobs in favor of newer, cheaper, children. Why would we ever assume we are safe?
Carl
07-21-2014, 02:05 PM
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..."As CAPA moves into the future, we continue to be engaged in both the domestic and international areanas. We will continue to work with Congress, DOT, FAA, DHS, TSA, NTSB, ICAO, CAA and other international industry stakeholders. We are actively pursuing protections for our pilots regarding international competition, RLA and NMB issues, and pension protections."
Carl
07-21-2014, 02:17 PM
Straight QOL, homie
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
Posts: 4,202
I haven't proven that the contract doesn't cost $3 billion. I guess common sense doesn't count for much in your head.
Apparently all the proof you need is to type something here, stomp your foot, and claim other folks are wrong because they can't disprove your ridiculous claims.
You tried to float a completely asinine number, hoping it would sneak through, to be used as a future talking point. When called out, you walk it back by claiming a "typo."
Unfortunately, that has been your modus operandi. Wave your arms and hysterically insist you are correct, even when you're completely out to lunch. Hey, I guess it works for you, so keep up the great job cheerleading, johnso. More pom poms for everyone!
07-21-2014, 02:21 PM
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Joined APC: Apr 2009
Posts: 917
It hasn't changed from Mr Woolman's days. The world around us certainly has, and the methods for implementing that core business has changed. It's business. Grow or die. The case study is SWA. Let's see how successful that company is going forward with the same business model run in the same old way. We can have this discussion in a few years....
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