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Old 07-21-2014, 10:07 AM
  #163411  
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Originally Posted by tsquare
I won't argue that point at all. But if it weren't for those other entities, Delta would not be the global power it is. So it is up to them to make themselves "more expensive". It is simply not practical for us to serve all markets into which we now have reach. It is extremely naive to believe otherwise. So we need to strike the balance. I agree that the JV flying is out of whack (or will be) and (sorry ACL) to say that it currently is not out of compliance while true, is legalese that is just silly. Anyone with a pulse that is remotely paying attention knows that it WILL be when the time comes. And like most on here, I believe we should be made whole. Now... how do we do that without "selling" jobs?

If you want the iron clad all encompassing scope clause, you need to work for SWA or ALK. (But I believe SWA's is in serious jeopardy.. JMHO)
ALK has no scope beyond what Endeavor has with Delta (similar fleet model). I was too over-educated for SWA and don't think enough of that torture chamber Boeing calls a 737NG to spend the rest of my professional life there. I think SWA has issues, but outsourcing is not one of them. Perhaps Jet Blue would be a better model to test your theory on and they do operate their own RJ's.

SWA needs only the right management, back office systems and procedures. Richard Anderson's team could do wonders with that place.

T, the answer is easy enough. Force Delta to staff our share, whether or not we perform it. Pilots move up the stove pipe and get paid; Delta loses the financial interest to engage in illegal self-help.

I find it interesting that if I engage in blatant self-help, I would be fired. When management does it, we talk and maybe exchange some percentage of the actual harm caused. Yes, I understand it was inconvenient to comply with our Contract, but how would Delta respond if we acted in similar fashion and stated, "you know with Ebola, terrorists blowing things up and Malaria; we just don't find that back to back red eye trip that duties in after 22:00 just to cheat us out of a day's pay to be an appealing place to do business in."

There is a ridiculous double standard. If I'm ever President of ALPA, I'm going to kill the RLA, or die tryin.
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Old 07-21-2014, 10:12 AM
  #163412  
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Originally Posted by casual observer
Agreed. Besides, contract stuff hurts my brain.

Here's a new rumor: Any new heavy order will come with all new flight attendants:

If that involves Delta pilots, ALPA knocked it out of the park.

I do think our next heavy order will be coordinated with Virgin. It seems an economic certainty.
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Old 07-21-2014, 10:13 AM
  #163413  
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Originally Posted by newKnow
Wait a minute, Ts. Right now you guys are undefeated. It's all about perspective.



But Newk, welcome to the SEC now that we have you here. First things first, the 2015 National Champions is the University of Georgia. No doubt about it. Book it.

This is the case every July and August. Things change in early September. By October deer are dying in mass on Saturdays.



I tease. This year UGA has been a little quiet.
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Old 07-21-2014, 10:14 AM
  #163414  
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Originally Posted by Denny Crane
Thanks Ferd! I feel I'm in good company with you, NewK and a few others!! North and South coming together, who'da thunk!!!

Denny
Apparently, dogs and cats living together isn't as big as a problem as people made it out to be. .

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Old 07-21-2014, 10:16 AM
  #163415  
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Originally Posted by casual observer
Agreed. Besides, contract stuff hurts my brain.

Here's a new rumor: Any new heavy order will come with all new flight attendants:

Nice rumor!
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Old 07-21-2014, 10:17 AM
  #163416  
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Originally Posted by georgetg
...only if you hate sidesticks, it does go both ways.

Why do you think Air Canada bought Embraer E-jet over more CRJs?

Cheers
George
George,

That's true, but the example will confuse your readers.

North America and Europe are both excluded for the kind of deals your readers are thinking about. Just because Canada made the choice not to play is distinct from the legal environment that effects our wide body purchase decisions.

BTW, excellent posts with regards to the Delta pilots knocking of the petty squabbles over things which can not be changed.
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Old 07-21-2014, 10:19 AM
  #163417  
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Originally Posted by gloopy
This should be a sticky and a poster on every crew room wall until this is resolved. Its hard to believe something this massive and crucial is so relatively under the radar.
It will be interesting to see how it plays out with the cure period ending about a week before the exchange of openers for C2015.
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Old 07-21-2014, 10:26 AM
  #163418  
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The Jumbo RJ's would be amazing to fly under the mainline contract. In fact, RJ captain would go quite senior if it were on your list. The planes are very easy to fly, it's also nice, to fly to a destination where the airport isn't big enough to have jet bridges. For those that flew the old RJ's, like the 200, those planes are no where near the quality that the new 700/900's are.
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Old 07-21-2014, 10:29 AM
  #163419  
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On dog whisperer's JUMPSEAT. That is all.
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Old 07-21-2014, 10:30 AM
  #163420  
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Originally Posted by Hillbilly
It will be interesting to see how it plays out with the cure period ending about a week before the exchange of openers for C2015.


PAY ME! PAY ME! I'm out of here in 5 years, Contract 2000, restoration, PLUS INTEREST! Pay Me! DPA, DPA, Contract 2012 wasn't anywhere near enough, PAY ME, I'm not thinking ahead and not supporting my union either, PAY ME.



Oh, what's that I hear?




Folks, what I am advocating here is:
  • Support ALPA, your Reps and Volunteers who work for you
  • Support ALPA PAC
  • Think carefully about your survey responses
  • Consider that scope nets you more actual pay through advancement than having $1 above whatever arbitrary metric, or contract comparison from a decade and a half ago you might have in mind.
  • Just think; remember that Delta is a holding company of alter ego stacked on alter ego and the easy play is simply to move flying around to the flavor of the day while allocating costs to the "bad boys."
  • Hold ALPA accountable for results. Learn about the Candidates. Know how your Reps vote. We, as members of the association fail the association when we let things like Endeavor's negotiations go unchallenged. We need to keep a very close watch on this transatlantic JV.

Last edited by Bucking Bar; 07-21-2014 at 10:40 AM.
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