Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
07-21-2014, 07:54 AM
Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,989
Alan,
You are generally one of the most level headed and objective posters on here. It amazes me how some guys get so aggressive and critical of fellow DAL Pilots - we are all on the same team, we all want the same thing.
I have been attacked on here every so often - usually when another Pilot
misinterprets my meaning - I guess it goes with the territory.
Keep up the excellent and informative posts.
Scoop
07-21-2014, 07:59 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
You know better. It had nothing to do with "didn't want."
I am sure your consulting business does business in Europe and you have some working knowledge of the EU laws, and because of this, you know that their collective agreements are not public record like ours. I am sure you also know what the France tax rate is on the AF pilots and what their social benefits are in retirement. All of this said, you also know that DALPA would have loved to get that information out, but for the AF pilots to disclose any of it, it had to be agreed upon that we would not detail it in a contract history or comparison.
The simple fact is when looking at total W-2, v take home pay, v negotiated benefits, v their socialized benefits in retirement, and then comparing theirs to ours, there are area we are better in and areas they are better in. I would not classify us as equals but the differences are noted.
07-21-2014, 08:01 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
How about a Boeing v. Airbus fight?
I'm tired of the Delta fight club.
I say Boeing might have a shot because of the better cabin configuration of the -900; but cheap is cheap.
My guess:
- ALPA's Trans Atlantic and Virgin Negotiations will have to be substantially concluded before Delta management announces their wide body order.
- The wide body order numbers will trickle out.
- Delta will buy (regardless of ALPA's negotiations) the cheapest aircraft they can for Delta.
- Delta will continue to lavish our big Capital Expenditures on owned subsidiaries (like Endeavor and Virgin Atlantic, which needs a new fleet and who has no money to speak of)
07-21-2014, 08:01 AM
Works Every Weekend
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: 737 ATL
Posts: 3,506
Union criticism has been an integral part of this thread for a long time.
ALPA guys coming around to defend the union is also traditional.
I think the debate has been tremendously useful and informative over the years.
The recent exchanges however, have been something different.
A lot of people have enjoyed this thread for a long time. You guys are endangering that.
Please stop.
ALPA guys coming around to defend the union is also traditional.
I think the debate has been tremendously useful and informative over the years.
The recent exchanges however, have been something different.
A lot of people have enjoyed this thread for a long time. You guys are endangering that.
Please stop.
07-21-2014, 08:03 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
07-21-2014, 08:05 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Union criticism has been an integral part of this thread for a long time.
ALPA guys coming around to defend the union is also traditional.
I think the debate has been tremendously useful and informative over the years.
The recent exchanges however, have been something different.
A lot of people have enjoyed this thread for a long time. You guys are endangering that.
Please stop.
ALPA guys coming around to defend the union is also traditional.
I think the debate has been tremendously useful and informative over the years.
The recent exchanges however, have been something different.
A lot of people have enjoyed this thread for a long time. You guys are endangering that.
Please stop.
Well reasoned debate is good. Emotional debate does not produce results. We can debate the merits of any decision and will always have the benefit of 20/20 hindsight. Civility is the key to success and the best ideas not personalities coming to the top.
07-21-2014, 08:08 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
Well, Delta's in for half of that alter ego called Air France and violating our production balance; their pay is relevant in as much as we must negotiate below them to avoid having our flying transferred in the absence of enforceable scope. (or alternatively we again cash out another scope violation to the applause of those with a very short time horizon).
However, while that half is bothersome, there is another half we need to consider as well.
Richard Branson and Virgin Employees pleased that Richard Anderson recognizes their superior brand with a new aircraft order.
Noting that Virgin has mostly lost money and has no money of it's own to buy aircraft, Richard Branson observed, "well Continental Airlines was not profitable either, but they did fine with Eastern's help."
However, while that half is bothersome, there is another half we need to consider as well.
Richard Branson and Virgin Employees pleased that Richard Anderson recognizes their superior brand with a new aircraft order.
Noting that Virgin has mostly lost money and has no money of it's own to buy aircraft, Richard Branson observed, "well Continental Airlines was not profitable either, but they did fine with Eastern's help."
07-21-2014, 08:10 AM
Works Every Weekend
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: 737 ATL
Posts: 3,506
We need to stop the repetitive and personal battles.
Maybe we need yet another thread for the "Yes you are!" - "No I'm not!" group.
Those kind of posts do not advance the debate and are just plain annoying.
07-21-2014, 08:11 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Wow T.
Track here if you can.
Note: this is not about the APA. It's not about DPA. It's not about ALPA.
This is about pattern bargaining . You might think it is "a small part of the picture or some minor improvements," as you say, but it is the new bar.
If we don't exceed that bar, we don't do our part to lift the profession.
Then tell us all how TVM works if we are locked into rates that are $40 an hour less on the a330 and 76-4. That is going to be significant shortly when the RFP is announced and it's loaded with NEOs.
Track here if you can.
Note: this is not about the APA. It's not about DPA. It's not about ALPA.
This is about pattern bargaining . You might think it is "a small part of the picture or some minor improvements," as you say, but it is the new bar.
If we don't exceed that bar, we don't do our part to lift the profession.
Then tell us all how TVM works if we are locked into rates that are $40 an hour less on the a330 and 76-4. That is going to be significant shortly when the RFP is announced and it's loaded with NEOs.
We'll do our part in raising the bar. (unless of course the hard liners are successful in torpedoing the process for years and years). The other thing is re: the RFP, we won't see any of those airplanes for at least another contract. Not that I am interested in setting any rates lower than what the gods at APA have achieved, but those airplanes are in the future, and at this point are as real as a 380 order. I have zero worries that their contract will be bettered. Zero.
Have fun....
07-21-2014, 08:12 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Having offline for a few days, I have to ax a question.
Carl.
Are you this paranoid in your real life?
Carl.
Are you this paranoid in your real life?
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