Originally Posted by Bucking Bar

If only. They should demand change, but lack the visibility to understand the issue any better than any of the rest of us.

Originally Posted by SharpestTool

RA is the best airline CEO in the business, The market agrees.

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar

I agree. Hence 717's while permitted aircraft sit unordered.

IMHO statistics are moving our way on this. Once some manager has a BFO, then ALPA will get on board.

The shame is that ALPA should have always been against outsourcing as a moral issue.

More than 50% of my assets are invested in small businesses I started. It is damn hard work sometimes. Sometimes I wonder if I should cash out and buy Berkshire or something ... but there is enough low hanging fruit at Companies, even those as well run as Delta, that it seems a waste.

Originally Posted by forgot to bid

anyone here a Duty Pilot or have been one on the past? i have a buddy who wants to becone one and he would be good at it but I honestly know very little about becoming one. PM me if you have anything you can share.

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar

Well you just have to understand Douglas design philosophy.

Start with a decent design, stretch it until every component is far beyond any capacity ever envisioned by it's designers. Never, ever do anything new. Everything must be derivative of a previous effort. Never give up. Never give in to calls for standardization. Human factors? ... toughen up slacker! ...




1) a few MD-82s flying -- round dial, no LNAV/VNAV - didn't work well, try something else.
2) some MD-88s arrive -- glass, but no LNAV/VNAV yet- didn't work well, try something else.
3) MD-88 LNAV/VNAV installed, but not authorized for use
4) LNAV authorized for use - didn't work well, try something else.
5) VNAV authorized for use - didn't work well, try something else.
6) MD-82s retrofitted with glass and LNAV/VNAV - didn't work well, try something else.
7) MD-88 with IS&S Flight Deck, derived from a 10 year old business jet, can't command airplanes as disparate as the MD88 and MD90 (different pitch control logic) try something else. - didn't work well, try something else ... .

The next attempt will be to scavenge something from a hooptied up DC-10, preferably sourced from Craigslist, yard sales or Asian operators (equivalent level of traceability and certification).


Already been done you say ... I say, perfect!

Anything you want to know about Delta's EFB project ... just apply Douglas design philosophy.

. Microsoft Surface RT, the MD88 of EFB's!

Originally Posted by Braniff DC8

And the MD90's. Are they still planning on re-doing the flight decks? It has gone silent and have been reading DAL is just ordering more NEW jets. Seems like it might be a waste of money?

I think both the 88 and 90 flight decks are currently the same with some switch differences. Do crews fly both?

I think the 88's were originally 82's and were modded in the late 80s early 90s?

I would love to fly the 88/90 for the Big D but like the current flight deck. Truthfully, I love the old analog flight deck. Anyone have any old MD82 pics of DALs aircraft?

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar

Sharpest,

Management over valued outsourcing and over valued the benefit of outsourcing in bankruptcy.

The question remains the 100 seater and I would like our union to have very good visibility into these economics BEFORE it becomes a question and it's damn hard to get good analysis when even the owners of the Company don't have that kind of visibility.

I will be happy if we simply take on the task from the view that scope is our strategic imperative.

Originally Posted by MD88Driver

I'm not mgmt but the latest Maddog messenger stated they are working hard to get it to work. Second hand info said they had it working in the FTDs and moving on to the sims. The backup plan is to install Pegasus--same as the JAL 90s currently have--to make them NexGen capable.

Originally Posted by SharpestTool

First, I doubt the Delta MEC or virtually anyone else at Delta (excluding RA and his officers) or on this board truly understands inflation. Specifically, where it comes from and why it is always present. So other than sticking a sharp stick in ones eye sufficient to force one to bone up on inflation, providing a chart showing the dilution of real spending power is a waste of time. It is not like being aware of it somehow provides the hidden leverage to ever get lost purchasing power back. That is why it is called inflation. By definition, purchasing power is stolen from you and you don't get it back. If we were to stay in front of inflation, there would be no inflation. Get it?

Some will say the above is a defeatist attitude. Not really. Your future earnings are subject to inflation, not necessarily your past earnings. Whether your retained past earnings, in the form of savings, is subject to and doomed to suffer the effects of inflation are totally up to you and whether you are smart enough to manage them properly. I admit no defeat there. But, to believe that somehow I will ever see lost earnings plus inflation is a fantasy that deserves no further discussion by serious thinkers such as me.

As far as concessions, everyone I know understands fully what was sacrificed willingly (overwhelming majority that did not include me BTW) outside of bankruptcy, then later during bankruptcy.

The MEC did a good job of showing us where we were, what happened and when. They are not equipped to deliver a lesson in economics, nor is the pilot group willing to submit to such a lesson. A shame really because most are able.

Soon we will get a comprehensive description of where we are now relative to our peers. I thank them for this information. I will handle it from here and will determine real value that I require in a future contract. My expectations will result from that analysis, done by me and not the MEC. I am an expert in that department where they aren't and shouldn't be.