Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
07-02-2014, 07:44 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Position: 7ERA
Posts: 950
07-02-2014, 07:48 AM
FlySmarterNotHarder
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: fifi flyer
Posts: 573
Guys,
What do you think about trying to change our travel benefits for the better? I am not sure what we should try for, but nonreving in the summer is continually getting harder.
Some possibles alternatives could include:
Positive space vacation passes.
Discounted tickets that are actually discounted - unlike fly confirmed for (not) less.
Anyone have any thoughts on the subject?
Scoop
What do you think about trying to change our travel benefits for the better? I am not sure what we should try for, but nonreving in the summer is continually getting harder.
Some possibles alternatives could include:
Positive space vacation passes.
Discounted tickets that are actually discounted - unlike fly confirmed for (not) less.
Anyone have any thoughts on the subject?
Scoop
What a great idea! If you are a ramper just hired yesterday!
When I was junior (<10 yrs) I had to pay $16 per Nonrev segment. Now that I finally have some seniority (>20 yrs), youngsters want yet another scheme to jump over me once again. No thanks junior.
BTW, the. OGT debacle should have ended years ago like it was supposed to. What a screw job to those who play by the rules.
Last edited by UGBSM; 07-02-2014 at 08:03 AM.
07-02-2014, 07:56 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Guys,
What do you think about trying to change our travel benefits for the better? I am not sure what we should try for, but nonreving in the summer is continually getting harder.
Some possibles alternatives could include:
Positive space vacation passes.
Discounted tickets that are actually discounted - unlike fly confirmed for (not) less.
Anyone have any thoughts on the subject?
Scoop
What do you think about trying to change our travel benefits for the better? I am not sure what we should try for, but nonreving in the summer is continually getting harder.
Some possibles alternatives could include:
Positive space vacation passes.
Discounted tickets that are actually discounted - unlike fly confirmed for (not) less.
Anyone have any thoughts on the subject?
Scoop
07-02-2014, 08:01 AM
FlySmarterNotHarder
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: fifi flyer
Posts: 573
Here's my proposal: Agree to a 3 year contract with pay raises of 0/0/0.
On date of signing-2015, ADG goes from 5:15 to 6:00. At end of 2016, ADG goes to 6:45. At end of 2017, ADG goes to 7:30. At end of 2018, ADG goes to 8:00.
Simple easy argument to make with the public and the NMB. Pilots will be guaranteed at least 8 hours of pay for the days they work.
I would mention scope, but that can't get better with ALPA. But fate (read RJ experiment and JV experiment collapsing) could always intervene.
Carl
On date of signing-2015, ADG goes from 5:15 to 6:00. At end of 2016, ADG goes to 6:45. At end of 2017, ADG goes to 7:30. At end of 2018, ADG goes to 8:00.
Simple easy argument to make with the public and the NMB. Pilots will be guaranteed at least 8 hours of pay for the days they work.
I would mention scope, but that can't get better with ALPA. But fate (read RJ experiment and JV experiment collapsing) could always intervene.
Carl
07-02-2014, 08:30 AM
Banned
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 147
Been awhile since I last checked this board. Things start to get interesting again as the contract comparison and survey hits the street.
I see the same characters are still here. I wouldn't mind seeing completed surveys posted here. Mine will be posted. Should result in a few flying poo storms. Much fun for all! Been told by a more than a few reps that they would like an email, phone chat, or better a face to face to discuss what we want in a new contract. This above and beyond the survey. Well, they asked for it, why not give it to them. Both barrels.
The contract comparison should be an eye opener.
I see the same characters are still here. I wouldn't mind seeing completed surveys posted here. Mine will be posted. Should result in a few flying poo storms. Much fun for all! Been told by a more than a few reps that they would like an email, phone chat, or better a face to face to discuss what we want in a new contract. This above and beyond the survey. Well, they asked for it, why not give it to them. Both barrels.
The contract comparison should be an eye opener.
07-02-2014, 08:32 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: 7ERB
Posts: 2,039
But I know most all companies that are public, "play" with their numbers. It is hard to choose a side because the numbers change all the time.
I am here to tell my bros that DAL/Other Airlines can afford to pay their pilots much more than 4833. I am also 100% confident if honesty, ethics and integrity where the ethos of this management or any other management team, we can have our retirement and all our flying put back on our seniority list.
Our retirement and flying where diminished by shrewd managers who took advantage of the world landscape. Knee jerk immediately (maybe well founded) but ultimately taking advantage of our fear to reset our benefits and compensation. I think it is time to get back what we had and improve on it.
I have a feeling, though, many of my pilot brothers do not feel the same as I do. As a collective unit, I support the majority but I will not vote FOR unless I know I am getting paid what I deserve, sacrificed and worked so hard to achieve. We have to support our conscience, we have to dig deeper and question what we are told. If we dont do that we will blindly follow each other to the kool-aid station
Needless to say, I really love my company and career. Most importantly, I am a DALPA supporter. TEN
07-02-2014, 08:33 AM
Banned
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 147
BTW,
Any buyers of DAL at 38? Chart looks interesting at that level.
Any buyers of DAL at 38? Chart looks interesting at that level.
07-02-2014, 08:36 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
Yeah, because the F B I really GAS about a NMB election.
How about answering honestly ... petty vandalism does not warrant the FBI 's attention and the DPA can sue Delta pilot s if they want to, until they finally connect with a defendant, who will file a motion to dismiss.
Meanwhile the lawsuit keeps some emotionally invested schadenfreude fans sending checks in hope that whoever they don't like on the Delta property gets in trouble (ALPA has already denied involvement).
I can't wait until the DPA either has to identify "John Doe" or dismiss their press release, I mean, lawsuit. The antagonists they've cultivated will wonder where their money went ... and that is not a group I would want to deal with.
How about answering honestly ... petty vandalism does not warrant the FBI 's attention and the DPA can sue Delta pilot s if they want to, until they finally connect with a defendant, who will file a motion to dismiss.
Meanwhile the lawsuit keeps some emotionally invested schadenfreude fans sending checks in hope that whoever they don't like on the Delta property gets in trouble (ALPA has already denied involvement).
I can't wait until the DPA either has to identify "John Doe" or dismiss their press release, I mean, lawsuit. The antagonists they've cultivated will wonder where their money went ... and that is not a group I would want to deal with.
07-02-2014, 09:11 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
07-02-2014, 09:26 AM
Banned
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 147
Actually, we do have a huge debt load But I know most all companies that are public, "play" with their numbers.
It is hard to choose a side because the numbers change all the time.
I am here to tell my bros that DAL/Other Airlines can afford to pay their pilots much more than 4833. I am also 100% confident if honesty, ethics and integrity where the ethos of this management or any other management team, we can have our retirement and all our flying put back on our seniority list.
Our retirement and flying where diminished by shrewd managers who took advantage of the world landscape. Knee jerk immediately (maybe well founded) but ultimately taking advantage of our fear to reset our benefits and compensation. I think it is time to get back what we had and improve on it.
I have a feeling, though, many of my pilot brothers do not feel the same as I do. As a collective unit, I support the majority but I will not vote FOR unless I know I am getting paid what I deserve, sacrificed and worked so hard to achieve. We have to support our conscience, we have to dig deeper and question what we are told. If we dont do that we will blindly follow each other to the kool-aid station Needless to say, I really love my company and career. Most importantly, I am a DALPA supporter.
TEN
But I know most all companies that are public, "play" with their numbers. It is hard to choose a side because the numbers change all the time.
I am here to tell my bros that DAL/Other Airlines can afford to pay their pilots much more than 4833. I am also 100% confident if honesty, ethics and integrity where the ethos of this management or any other management team, we can have our retirement and all our flying put back on our seniority list.
Our retirement and flying where diminished by shrewd managers who took advantage of the world landscape. Knee jerk immediately (maybe well founded) but ultimately taking advantage of our fear to reset our benefits and compensation. I think it is time to get back what we had and improve on it.
I have a feeling, though, many of my pilot brothers do not feel the same as I do. As a collective unit, I support the majority but I will not vote FOR unless I know I am getting paid what I deserve, sacrificed and worked so hard to achieve. We have to support our conscience, we have to dig deeper and question what we are told. If we dont do that we will blindly follow each other to the kool-aid station
Needless to say, I really love my company and career. Most importantly, I am a DALPA supporter. TEN
Lets say we ink another 4833 for contract 2015. Lets further assume we ink the deal 6 mo.s early as we did last time. The math says that is another 6.85% compounded annual increase over 3 years. Rough calculation says M88A (largest category at DAL) pays out around $252. Add on 15% 401K contribution, we get $290. Doable? Absolutely! Is it enough?
Let's keep going.
Another 3 years, $307 for a pay rate and total comp rate of $353.
Isn't compounding math fun? Let's look at the other side of the coin. Can Delta generate an annual compounded profit increase of 6.85%? Sure. The question is for how long? Can we increase our comp at 6.85% annually? Sure, we have demonstrated that. For how long?
Clearly the answer to those questions is not forever. We know this intuitively. Enough is a question that depends on how one sees the world. A linear view reveals quite a different result than a cyclical view. Exponential growth requires cyclic adjustment. Linear growth is far more stable and allows time for productivity to keep pace.
Time is the key element. 4833 as one time deal over a 3 year period is not particularly exciting. 48334833 over 6 years gets the blood flowing a bit. 483348334833 over 9 years is quite an eye opener that gets one's pulse going real good.
Would you sign off on a such a 9 year contract, assuming inflation remains at current levels? I know, ridiculous, but it's a thought experiment. I would in a heartbeat. There is virtually 0 chance DAL will grow profitability at that rate for that period of time.
A more reasonable question, and still a thought experiment, would you sign off on 4833 commencing Jun 1 2015?
I think 4833 is highly doable and likely a lower bound. Interesting.
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