Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
07-01-2014, 03:42 PM
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07-01-2014, 03:43 PM
Straight QOL, homie
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
Posts: 4,202
"Share a career?" Sorry, I don't get to collect fpl, get wined and dined by management, enjoy an expense account, and generally mooch off the pilots' dues. The entrenched bureaucrats most certainly do not "share my career."
07-01-2014, 03:47 PM
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Carl
07-01-2014, 03:52 PM
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
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Carl
07-01-2014, 04:01 PM
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Carl
07-01-2014, 04:19 PM
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07-01-2014, 04:19 PM
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
Not only can we, but it's vital to continue telling that truth. Few occupations have our level of responsibility for lives.
He didn't say that. Nobody has. I'm saying that the two are clearly disconnected. Our profession has an enormous responsibility for lives attached to it. Our pay is based (somewhat) on the productivity gained by the aircraft size and its inherent economies of scale.
Carl
He didn't say that. Nobody has. I'm saying that the two are clearly disconnected. Our profession has an enormous responsibility for lives attached to it. Our pay is based (somewhat) on the productivity gained by the aircraft size and its inherent economies of scale.
Carl
Here's an idea. How about "RBP" (Responsibility Based Pay) as a major component of our pay? In other words, airline pilots should be extremely well compensated for the enormous responsibility we have. Then add to that the productivity with aircraft size and economies of scale. Bigger airplanes still pay better, but ALL airline pilots are compensated at a level that provides a standard of living comparable to what this profession settled into at the major airline level in the 1980's through early 2000's. No more poverty level pilot jobs carrying passengers under 121. Takes away management's primary incentive to outsource our jobs while at the same time making sure this profession is compensated appropriately. (They can add a $5 "pilot compensation fee" if they aren't smart enough to figure out how to increase revenue and/or cut other costs.
)Okay... just woke up from my dream. ALPA is still here. Lee Moak and "proactive engagement" are still alive and well. Never going to happen. Disregard.
07-01-2014, 04:26 PM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
07-01-2014, 04:30 PM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Not only can we, but it's vital to continue telling that truth. Few occupations have our level of responsibility for lives.
He didn't say that. Nobody has. I'm saying that the two are clearly disconnected. Our profession has an enormous responsibility for lives attached to it. Our pay is based (somewhat) on the productivity gained by the aircraft size and its inherent economies of scale.
Carl
He didn't say that. Nobody has. I'm saying that the two are clearly disconnected. Our profession has an enormous responsibility for lives attached to it. Our pay is based (somewhat) on the productivity gained by the aircraft size and its inherent economies of scale.
Carl
If Iraq blows up and oil hits $140/bbl, what are you gonna downbid to? Your ego gonna be able to handle it?
07-01-2014, 05:04 PM
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You know, it would be nice if even one time there could be a discussion about issues based on logic and reason and not emotion and attack. Seriously, do United and American have pay banding? Does Southwest have a single pay rate? What other domestic/international competitors do we have on the scale of Delta? So who is different? I will let you answer the questions and see if you can even tell the truth about known facts or if you will just attack.
A little advice, when you try to argue on emotion and attack you will lose every time. This is a business negotiation about money, nothing more, nothing less. If you treat it like some high school popularity contest you will be crushed. I expect the next words to come out of your mouth to be "he can't sit at our table, this is the cool kids table". That is your level of discourse.
Our contract is riddled with tradeoffs of pay and productivity. Why isn't our vacation day worth 3:30 or 5:45 or 15:00 hours? That is a trade. Why is the ALV 72 -84 and not 15-20? That is a trade. Why don't we have unlimited sick leave? That is a trade. Why do we have any training freezes at all? That is a trade. I could go on and on.
Anyone that ever white slips, green slips, swaps trips for more pay, or doesn't try to personal drop every one of their assigned trips is simply selling jobs for money. To try to equate this issue with a moral crusade is just emotional claptrap that is designed to deflect from the facts on the ground.
Management wannabe? Shadow MEC? Seriously, just win the debate in the arena of facts and logic. At least if you are not scared of that. One advantage of facing very trying circumstances is you get a little clarity on what is important and what is not. Kick me out of the cool kids table and shun me and call me internet names. See if I care one little bit.
A little advice, when you try to argue on emotion and attack you will lose every time. This is a business negotiation about money, nothing more, nothing less. If you treat it like some high school popularity contest you will be crushed. I expect the next words to come out of your mouth to be "he can't sit at our table, this is the cool kids table". That is your level of discourse.
Our contract is riddled with tradeoffs of pay and productivity. Why isn't our vacation day worth 3:30 or 5:45 or 15:00 hours? That is a trade. Why is the ALV 72 -84 and not 15-20? That is a trade. Why don't we have unlimited sick leave? That is a trade. Why do we have any training freezes at all? That is a trade. I could go on and on.
Anyone that ever white slips, green slips, swaps trips for more pay, or doesn't try to personal drop every one of their assigned trips is simply selling jobs for money. To try to equate this issue with a moral crusade is just emotional claptrap that is designed to deflect from the facts on the ground.
Management wannabe? Shadow MEC? Seriously, just win the debate in the arena of facts and logic. At least if you are not scared of that. One advantage of facing very trying circumstances is you get a little clarity on what is important and what is not. Kick me out of the cool kids table and shun me and call me internet names. See if I care one little bit.
There's a lack of consistency in your logic.
Carl
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