Originally Posted by Wingnutdal

What are people's thoughts on including a 3% per year raise as a tag on at the end of the contract. Just in case it does take 5 years to hash out a new agreement, maybe we wouldn't feel pressure to take a substandard (or not as good as the group wanted) deal.

Originally Posted by newKnow

As of now, because you won't address follow up questions, you have been exposed for posting opinions that are based on obsolete data, then stating them as fact.

It's not normally a horrible offense. But, when you do it to minimize the hard work your pilot group and your fellow employees have done over the years to help make Delta the profitable & successful airline that it is today, it comes off pretty bad.

Originally Posted by orvil

Gentlemen,

You have done a great job. Sailing Fun has been exposed and humiliated. It's Friday, how about some Underboob or at least some cheerleader pictures?

(I would post some, but I've already been counseled for this activity.)

Originally Posted by sailingfun

What obsolete data. The data I posted is the most current available. The 2013 data should be out soon. I am sure when that's out you will discount it also.

Originally Posted by sailingfun

Sadly the letters were long ago and not saved. The furlough issue was simple. I wrote a letter to RA stating that the furloughs were political at the time and game changing in history of Delta Airlines. I further added that toying with people's lives was a new low at Delta. I finished by stating I advocated taking the demanded 5% paycut and having the union use it to pay the furloughed pilots.
I got to have a personal chat with the CEO. I had also followed that up with a similar letter to the VP of flight ops which got me a personal call at my reserve squadron and another invite to Atlanta.
The last time I wrote a letter stating the rest seat change on the ER was a clear statement by Delta they were willing to trade revenue for safety. Another Atlanta invite.

Originally Posted by georgetg

Block hours per pilot isn't a measure of efficiency in this business...

The widgets we make are called ASMs
The cost to make the widgets is CASM

Delta's CASM is indeed higher than Southwest's CASM.
But to effectively measure pilot productivity we need to measure the pilot portion of CASM.
Guess what we are still more efficient as Southwest when it comes to the pilot portion of production.
Yes, that's right, the pilot portion of CASM at Delta is lower than the pilot portion of CASM at Southwest.

Why is this?
Let's look at "digging"

The workers at company A produce 25 billable digging hours per week.
The workers at company B produce 20 billable digging hours per week.

Clearly the workers at company A are more efficient, right?
If you measure billable digging hours you'd be right.

What if I told you the workers at company A use a shovel and the workers at company B use a Caterpillar D9.

Now who is more efficient?
Does it matter if Company B pays their D9 drivers more than the shovel wielders at company A?

So yes, using sailings "metric" of block hours, we are less productive than the others. But using the metric based on the currency the company accountants use - ASM - we are not. And that's the one that matters...

Cheers
George


Extra credit homework for sailing:
What is the pilot portion of CASM at Delta, what is it at WN?
How many ASMs are produced per pilot block hour at Delta, how many at WN?

Originally Posted by Sink r8

1) Marginalize extreme positions. Take out the people that don't care about sound and solid methods, or realistic expectations, but sit there and make demands with no clear foundation, or some emotional basis that no longer applies. Also take out the people that, instead of helping develop sound, solid methods, keep insinuating there is no sound, solid method for achieving anything, and just sit there, postulating on the negatives.

2) Develop a consensus on what the share of revenue needs to be, considering the fact that Delta is running out of places to hide money (extra retirement funding, extra debt repayments, superfluous stock buy-backs, dividends, shifting margin targets from 8-10%, now to 15%, etc.), for the Delta pilots, considering our sacrifices, and our ongoing contributions. Divorce all such calculations from a) some over-romanticized past contract at a company that actually no longer exists, and b) from all the fearful, tearful arguments that anything we ask for is too much. Make a credible, sound argument for a reasonable number that will allow the company to make respectable margins, while we bring home the share of the bacon our family deserves. This share may be more, less, or the same that some contract or other, but the point is that we benchmark against what is rightfully ours, without failing to also reward other constituencies in a balanced manner.

3) Hold out for the number in 2, above, and negotiate.

4) Determine through surveys how the pilot group wants the number in 2, above, to be distributed.

5) Continue to hold out for the number in 2, above.

6) Change strategies and tactics as needed, until we achieve the number in 2, above.

7) Once we attain the number in 2, above (not the moon and the stars, not a pitiful fear-induced number), ratify a TA, and move forward.

Originally Posted by gzsg

Date of signing May 2004 Delta hourly rates plus 3%. 5% per year after that.

3 year duration.

Per diem $2.95/$3.95 plus .10 per year

44 days of vacation UAL match

Air tight Improved JV language with rapid and severe penalties.

$4000 annual company contribution to medical savings account.

4:30 vacation day and training day.

Restoration of C2012 profit sharing reduction.

I admit this is not "historic" but this is the very minimum.

Originally Posted by scambo1

Sailing,
Please tell me you are NOT defending 2012 industry data as not obsolete.