Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
Straight QOL, homie
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
Posts: 4,202
You worded it carefully then, no doubt. But the implication was there. It was one of the many FUD tactics you yourself probably orchestrated, and are now attempting to walk back.
That point has validity up to a point, and we all now that. When it comes right down to it, we will go out there and do the job. We always have, and it won't change much.... for awhile. There will be rumblings here and there, but the vast majority of guys will still fill their lunchbox and go to work. But there might come a time when we are "fed up with it". Maybe ya'll are talking about that time, and I don't disagree about that... when we get there. But right now... today.. we are not even close. I'm still trying to talk about today. gszg is unhappy and wants a statement made telling Mr Anderson that we expect our sacrifices to be recognized and rewarded. I don't disagree with the idea per se, I just think at this juncture it is a waste of time. He and Ed want to whip the pilots into a frenzy and sustain that frenzy until negotiations begin in earnest. Again... imho.. a waste of time because between now and then we have the rest of summer and then football season. And THAT doesn't get us to exchange of openers. The vast majority.. or more importantly 62% will not remain all that interested until we actually get down to cutting bait or wetting worms. And a few malcontents will not affect the stock price. jmho.
I don't think we have a prayer of succeeding, if we go in as 11500+ individuals.
I thought we were in a union... I.e., shouldn't it be about obtaining the goals of a group of 11500+ vice the goals of 11500+ individuals. (BTW, I have no idea what my unions goals are... except maybe imposing CDO's on us! And that is very sad.)
Finally, when we were going for the infamous contract 2000, the union was very public about announcing our goals and very methodical in our approach to achieving those goals... I still have my "restoration" tie tack.
I doubt I'll ever hear the term restoration or any similar term from my union for the remainder of my career... and if the membership keeps voting for 3% pay increases, we won't even keep up with real inflation (including food & energy).
It is what it is.
I thought we were in a union... I.e., shouldn't it be about obtaining the goals of a group of 11500+ vice the goals of 11500+ individuals. (BTW, I have no idea what my unions goals are... except maybe imposing CDO's on us! And that is very sad.)
Finally, when we were going for the infamous contract 2000, the union was very public about announcing our goals and very methodical in our approach to achieving those goals... I still have my "restoration" tie tack.
I doubt I'll ever hear the term restoration or any similar term from my union for the remainder of my career... and if the membership keeps voting for 3% pay increases, we won't even keep up with real inflation (including food & energy).
It is what it is.
sorry for the rant
Why do you think people buy Delta stock? I'm not an expert and this just my opinion (thanks index ) , but to me, people buy Delta stock because we offer a superior product compared to the other airlines. Every other airline of note is in a shambles, right now. (United, American, & Southwest-- the other airlines and cargo company's aren't really our competitors.) Plus, our management team has a great reputation. I still have all of my Delta stock, because I see what goes on here everyday.
If we, the drivers -- in more ways than one -- become unhappy, it could serve as a signal to investors that things aren't so great in Deltaland and management does not want that. They have been batting near 1.000, since the merger, and it has paid dividends.
We should be seeking substantial improvements in our contract. I don't care what they other airlines are doing.
If we, the drivers -- in more ways than one -- become unhappy, it could serve as a signal to investors that things aren't so great in Deltaland and management does not want that. They have been batting near 1.000, since the merger, and it has paid dividends.
We should be seeking substantial improvements in our contract. I don't care what they other airlines are doing.
Your last point is well taken, and I don't disagree. I truly believe we will get substantial gains in C15. But we cannot ignore what the other airlines are doing. It just doesn't work that way. UAL/AAL/SWA have got to raise the bar in some areas. We cannot go alone each and every contract patterning against ourselves. Don't you get tired of having everybody else benefit by what WE do? I still want to be the premier group, but it's time for somebody else to at least do SOMETHING.
It's not a question of you being a surrender monkey or some other name. It's that you're not supportive of being in a union. You're only supportive of being in an association that pretends to occasionally act like a union. Your mindset has been changed (or maybe you've always been this way) to that of an investor class and independent contractor. You believe that what's best for management will ultimately trickle down to employees and be best for them. And if employees don't like it, then quit.
It's hard to tell whether your belief system is the Delta pilot majority, or whether mine is. But it's clear our association is "all in" on the concept of partnering with management, and that shows no sign of changing.
Carl
It's hard to tell whether your belief system is the Delta pilot majority, or whether mine is. But it's clear our association is "all in" on the concept of partnering with management, and that shows no sign of changing.
Carl
And how dare you ever accuse me of not wanting what's best for this pilot group. If it comes down to a strike vote, contrary to what you have publicly stated, I will walk the walk with my brothers. Even you. Your problem is that you want to go nuclear before you even hear a gunshot. I think you even relish that concept. You hate dALPA because they do things differently than you are used to. You feel it ineffective because you don't see management with a bloody nose and you feel that a necessary by product of successful labor relations. Sad really. Show me a better contract in the industry right now. Any one. I'll wait. And then let's look at the relationships that their pilots have with their management. It has nothing to do with trickle down economics or anything like that Carl.. it's all about timing. Look at your watch. It ain't time yet.
If they release survey results, fine. Whatever. It serves no useful purpose, but if it makes Carl happy, by all means we should release it. I need something to keep the oil off my garage floor anyway.
Alan, I think sharing the results helps individual voters decide if their desires or minimums are in line with the rest of the pilot group. Let's say I had a personal minimum raise set of 25% over the contract, the TA came back with 18%, and the survey results showed that most of the pilot group would have been happy with 15%. I would consider our group in the aggregate to be more realistic than my view alone, and would likely change my vote to yes. It would help me have faith that ALPA did everything possible in the negotiations and that they met the majority's goals.
Some might say, well then, your personal minimum was not 25%. I can live on what we make right now. However, I think the average of the Delta pilots' opinions would be a very good indicator of what we are actually worth, just as the market determines stock price. That number should be made public.
Respectfully submitted.
Some might say, well then, your personal minimum was not 25%. I can live on what we make right now. However, I think the average of the Delta pilots' opinions would be a very good indicator of what we are actually worth, just as the market determines stock price. That number should be made public.
Respectfully submitted.
Straight QOL, homie
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
Posts: 4,202
Originally Posted by tsquare[/QUOTE
Show me a better contract in the industry right now. Any one. I'll wait.
And then let's look at the relationships that their pilots have with their management.
So what exactly is the "time value" of a good relationship with management?
Show me a better contract in the industry right now. Any one. I'll wait.
Do you even think about what you write?
I've seen guys that bid reserve don't have a regular line bid preference in. Does anyone know if I can (not) bid a regular (full) line and instead start my bid with a Reduced lower limit bid?
I don't want reserve in July, but I don't want much of a line either. And yes, I know I could drop what I don't want after the bid, that's not the question.
I don't want reserve in July, but I don't want much of a line either. And yes, I know I could drop what I don't want after the bid, that's not the question.
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