FlyZ

Good question, T, and honestly I don't know. It's probably very hard to decouple one's individual needs from the desired salary. I think Sailing has a good point as well...what we think we are worth may be different from what we actually are worth to the company.

I do think it should relate to the difficulty in getting here, the amount of responsibility we have, the regular performance evaluations, medical and fitness standards, etc. There are some $100k jobs where people don't have 200 lives in their hands, don't wear a uniform, can get fat, aren't regularly evaluated, and can head to Denver to smoke pot on the weekend if they want to. $200k jobs, not as many. $300k jobs, even fewer. The RJ FO has many of those same requirements but obviously does it for a fraction of the money. I don't think anyone would argue that they are underpaid. Somehow supply and demand has people still willing to do it, but maybe only because they consider it a stepping stone?

I agree with Sailing to a point, but I also think that what we collectively think we are worth helps DETERMINE our actual worth. As an extreme example, what if all RJ pilots agreed tomorrow they would no longer work for less than $50/hr. If they held to that (RLA notwithstanding), I think the market would eventually determine that $50/hr is the going rate for RJ FOs. Impossible across the whole industry, but what about at one airline?

To Gloopy, totally agree on the scope portion and that pay rates aren't the end all. So many variables there, it's hard to come up with a simple scenario with those included. But all the things you said would make you vote no would draw a no vote from me as well! It does scare me that MD says "we have heard you loud and clear, and your number one concern is pay." I surely hope we don't give up any more profit sharing, reserve QOL, work rules, or scope to get those pay rates.

Last point for tonight...I personally think (and hope) the tide might be turning for ALPA. The latest contract mod was the first time I've seen positive words about ALPA from more than a few folks here (and obviously we are a statistically correct sample of the Delta pilots at large!) We want a union behind which we can rally, and I think they should be doing anything possible to garner this support. If survey results can be released without incurring a great strategic cost, then I think it would be a good faith gesture simply because it was a point of contention on the last contract.

Splash

I mean ever. During our last contract, survey questions were asked about rigs, augmentation, and getting a first class seat for deadheads during South flying.

Had ALPA published where those items ranked among others right after the contract was ratified, do you think those rankings could have impacted FAR 117 negotiations that started a year later?

80ktsClamp

739s suck (not sure how to get it out of facebook):

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v...type=2&theater

Carl Spackler

That's unknowable. What you are doing is making a case to never release survey results. I know of no other entity or act that actually plans on never releasing the results of a survey. Imagine you having the right to vote for president, but the results of your vote and your other citizens votes are never released? Our dues pay for the polling, but we members are specifically excluded from seeing what we've paid for.

Not sure of what case you're trying to make here Splash, but it's an indefensible position to suggest that members should never see the results of their own opinions.

Carl

FlyZ

Splash, I see what you are saying...if something was near the bottom of a previous survey, management would know that it isn't desired as much as something else on the list. But should the negotiating team even be working very hard on something well down our list at the expense of things the membership ranked higher? Aren't we essentially telling management what we care about most by bringing those items to the table?

Splash

I think voting is different than surveying. We know the results of the ratification vote in 2012 because we wouldn't have had a contract without the results. How the items within our contract survey were ranked is a different matter entirely, especially since all the items had yet to be negotiated.

You were making a case for release of survey results. I was giving an example of why that might not always be a good idea, and citing a situation that actually happened.

Splash

The example I'm thinking of was what happened in 2012.

What if some of the items that were about to be negotiated the next year, just prior to FAR 117 being put in place, were ranked very low in the 2012 survey?

Is there any risk to us with having the company know we ranked them so low?

scambo1

Happy Mother's Day to you too Slowplay.

Schwanker

And who would have operated all these 50 seaters we were lead to believe would be around in plan B? I'm sure our industry top analysts in Herndon forcast the staffing issues regionals are facing today. Or, didn't they? Fair question.'

--Not at you 80, just agreeing with your post.

Mesabah

The EtD has boosted our 9E application pool into double digits. Success!!

Only TWO applications are from guys coming out of flight school. The others are guys working at other 121 regionals.