Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
05-28-2014, 10:52 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,544
Yeah,left off the smiley and winkey things. Plus you know, the whole concept of blanket party by forloughees is a joke concept. 
Sorry Frank and gloopy... Small phone, many beers, bad punchline delivery.
I did get a good laugh Frank casually threw down "here I am biatch come visit" -- wish I was in town I'd stop by with some beers.
It's just so hard to review typing for autocorrect and humor tone in this half inch of screen. My bad on the joke delivery.
Sorry Frank and gloopy... Small phone, many beers, bad punchline delivery.
I did get a good laugh Frank casually threw down "here I am biatch come visit" -- wish I was in town I'd stop by with some beers.
It's just so hard to review typing for autocorrect and humor tone in this half inch of screen. My bad on the joke delivery.
05-28-2014, 10:53 AM
Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,991
Yeah,left off the smiley and winkey things. Plus you know, the whole concept of blanket party by forloughees is a joke concept.
Sorry Frank and gloopy... Small phone, many beers, bad punchline delivery.
I did get a good laugh Frank casually threw down "here I am biatch come visit" -- wish I was in town I'd stop by with some beers.
It's just so hard to review typing for autocorrect and humor tone in this half inch of screen. My bad on the joke delivery.
Sorry Frank and gloopy... Small phone, many beers, bad punchline delivery.
I did get a good laugh Frank casually threw down "here I am biatch come visit" -- wish I was in town I'd stop by with some beers.
It's just so hard to review typing for autocorrect and humor tone in this half inch of screen. My bad on the joke delivery.
RK,
No worries that is pretty much how I figured it.
Scoop
05-28-2014, 11:06 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
Then enjoy your retirement, travel, do what you love. Then you decide to give something back, so you decide to work. The first day is great! You get a gold watch and the money's terrific! After a while you want to get more in touch, so you get a service level job. Maybe working at a summer camp as the pinnacle of your career. But it is wisdom you are after ... so you go to College, where you do enough drugs to be ready for high school. As you go through your education you are learning simpler and simpler things until you reach a Zen like realization where anything worth speaking somehow can't be spoken. So you stop talking. You start taking yourself a lot lighter and you are a lot lighter, like a baby. Then when you decide to escape this mortal coil you leave as a glint in someone's eye.
Start with the Ending, it's the best place to begin!
(what I can remember to David Wilcox's intro to "Start With the Ending" )
05-28-2014, 11:32 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: Left, left, left right left....
Posts: 911
What is advancement? You have a pulse, survive another year and get a payraise. Advancing to what? A "bigger" airplane? I am better than halfway up the seniority list at DAL, and there are a TON of guys ahead of me on the M88. There are quite a few on the 717. Not everybody wants to fly the 777 or 747. Not everybody wants to fly international. I sure as hell don't want to "fly" an Airbus. And I'll GUARANTEE you that if we went to longevity pay the most senior airplane would be the 737 in ATL. Guarantee it. QOL baby. Why does it have to be sacrificed for pay?
I understand your points and QOL. As the movement slows down so does right seat to left. All the aircraft to aircraft movement we have now causes a lot of openings in the left seat. Sure it would eventually even out after absorbing the excess staffing and who knows how many years of further stagnation. Not something a lot of right seat dead-zoners are in any hurry to bear the brunt of now that we are finally starting see movement.
I'm also highly skeptical of achieving raises as a result of LGP, and would be very leery of flat lining pay or worse yet dumbing it down in several categories. A few would benefit, many more would not IMO. Negotiating priorities need to positively affect the whole pilot group to the greatest extent possible. I don't see the same benefits on this as you do.
05-28-2014, 11:42 AM
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,730
The ending is the best place to begin ... Die first, get it out of the way! Live life in reverse!
Then enjoy your retirement, travel, do what you love. Then you decide to give something back, so you decide to work. The first day is great! You get a gold watch and the money's terrific! After a while you want to get more in touch, so you get a service level job. Maybe working at a summer camp as the pinnacle of your career. But it is wisdom you are after ... so you go to College, where you do enough drugs to be ready for high school. As you go through your education you are learning simpler and simpler things until you reach a Zen like realization where anything worth speaking somehow can't be spoken. So you stop talking. You start taking yourself a lot lighter and you are a lot lighter, like a baby. Then when you decide to escape this mortal coil you leave as a glint in someone's eye.
Start with the Ending, it's the best place to begin!
(what I can remember to David Wilcox's intro to "Start With the Ending" )
Then enjoy your retirement, travel, do what you love. Then you decide to give something back, so you decide to work. The first day is great! You get a gold watch and the money's terrific! After a while you want to get more in touch, so you get a service level job. Maybe working at a summer camp as the pinnacle of your career. But it is wisdom you are after ... so you go to College, where you do enough drugs to be ready for high school. As you go through your education you are learning simpler and simpler things until you reach a Zen like realization where anything worth speaking somehow can't be spoken. So you stop talking. You start taking yourself a lot lighter and you are a lot lighter, like a baby. Then when you decide to escape this mortal coil you leave as a glint in someone's eye.
Start with the Ending, it's the best place to begin!
(what I can remember to David Wilcox's intro to "Start With the Ending" )
You're going to end up sitting in your own poop until someone changes your diaper anyway, so why not start at the end?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2GopSqhXRc
05-28-2014, 11:42 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Posts: 463
[/B]
Well, just for that, I'm going to disagree with your agreement!
Actually, C2102 had polling and MEMRAT. I do agree that there is always a heavy push to sell the final product, but it's impossible to deny that the pilots voted for C21012. Some people have a huge heartburn seeing that we voted for it at almost a 2:1 ratio yes:no, so e blame sales-jobs, the union, etc.
Truth is, we get what we deserve. We don't show up at meetings , we don't call our reps, we don't usually know the contract, we don't vote in new blood, we don't demand term limits. And come to think of it, we might be screwed if we had term limits anyway, because we also don't volunteer anyhow. So the same few guys end up doing all the jobs, and cycle from one to the next. I'm guessing ALPA is 1/3 really good guys serving us thanklessly as lifers, 1/3 entrenched self-serving lifers you couldn't scrape off, and 1/3 coming through, get slammed by whiny pilots that never show up at meetings, never call, don't usually know the contract, and don't vote. But they sure take the liberty of accusing the reps of every sort of misdeed in the world.
Would you want to be a rep? I sure don't.
We're like a lazy family where everyone has a license, but no one ever wants to drive or read a map, and we act all surprised when uncle Alfred ends up running out of gas in the middle of the night, when he's the only one with his eyes open. When he asks questions everyone tells him to shut up and get us some fast food,, and when he doesn't ask questions, we get upset because he got us Whoppers at the drive-through, and we wanted McDonalds.
Failing to supervise: that's how you end up with guys who ran on communications and good representation so far off the reservation.
I think the reps really thought they had our back, and were delivering a good product. They misread us. That's what happens when you let them run around unsupervised, with a bunch of power we've long ago relinquished: they get it wrong.
It's easy to blame them for all of it, maybe a little too easy.
Well, just for that, I'm going to disagree with your agreement!
Actually, C2102 had polling and MEMRAT. I do agree that there is always a heavy push to sell the final product, but it's impossible to deny that the pilots voted for C21012. Some people have a huge heartburn seeing that we voted for it at almost a 2:1 ratio yes:no, so e blame sales-jobs, the union, etc.
Truth is, we get what we deserve. We don't show up at meetings , we don't call our reps, we don't usually know the contract, we don't vote in new blood, we don't demand term limits. And come to think of it, we might be screwed if we had term limits anyway, because we also don't volunteer anyhow. So the same few guys end up doing all the jobs, and cycle from one to the next. I'm guessing ALPA is 1/3 really good guys serving us thanklessly as lifers, 1/3 entrenched self-serving lifers you couldn't scrape off, and 1/3 coming through, get slammed by whiny pilots that never show up at meetings, never call, don't usually know the contract, and don't vote. But they sure take the liberty of accusing the reps of every sort of misdeed in the world.
Would you want to be a rep? I sure don't.
We're like a lazy family where everyone has a license, but no one ever wants to drive or read a map, and we act all surprised when uncle Alfred ends up running out of gas in the middle of the night, when he's the only one with his eyes open. When he asks questions everyone tells him to shut up and get us some fast food,, and when he doesn't ask questions, we get upset because he got us Whoppers at the drive-through, and we wanted McDonalds.
Failing to supervise: that's how you end up with guys who ran on communications and good representation so far off the reservation.
I think the reps really thought they had our back, and were delivering a good product. They misread us. That's what happens when you let them run around unsupervised, with a bunch of power we've long ago relinquished: they get it wrong.
It's easy to blame them for all of it, maybe a little too easy.
The process at ALPA is broken. Not for logistic or monetary reasons. It is my belief they don't set up an efficient process to let the membership get more involved because they (the MEC) do not want to give up control. I believe management also does not want the union to give up their ability to make unilateral decisions. It certainly works to their advantage.
It's interesting to watch the "group think" and top down managerial philosophy indoctrinated into all who join the upper representation. Politics are rampant with many focusing on upward advancement while trying to align with those they feel will take them the furthest. They are taught that "line pilots" are unsophisticated thinkers incapable of understanding how important a tight knit liaison with management is in getting things done. Therefore the secrecy and control. Unfortunately this personalized relationship with management can cause loyalty issues for fear of offending the high powered friends they have become so close to.
It would be relatively easy to use the various electronic means available today to involve pilots through polling, live Q and A, vetting, voting, etc at a very reasonable cost. A lot of guys would take the time to weigh in. Make it easy instead of layering barriers to entry with antiquated policy/protocol.
We preach CRM in the cockpit but our union is not interested in creating the structure to best utilize CRM with regard to communication, contract/TA's, work rules, side letters, compensation, etc. And then they feign disappointment and confusion when there is an uproar as we just saw. And yet nothing ever changes. No lessons learned. No protocol changed. They continue in their divisive ways. They keep tight fisted on control and we keep making the same dumb mistakes, divided as ever. You have to laugh when unity is preached, while very little is put into place to achieve it.
05-28-2014, 11:44 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,299
My main worry would be that, given no financial incentive to bid a different airplane, our seniority list would gradually move to a state where each of us tries to be as senior in a category as possible. The end state could well be that it takes years to get off of reserve on any airplane.
05-28-2014, 11:47 AM
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,730
My main worry would be that, given no financial incentive to bid a different airplane, our seniority list would gradually move to a state where each of us tries to be as senior in a category as possible. The end state could well be that it takes years to get off of reserve on any airplane.
One of those unintended consequences...
05-28-2014, 11:47 AM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
My main worry would be that, given no financial incentive to bid a different airplane, our seniority list would gradually move to a state where each of us tries to be as senior in a category as possible. The end state could well be that it takes years to get off of reserve on any airplane.
05-28-2014, 11:49 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
My main worry would be that, given no financial incentive to bid a different airplane, our seniority list would gradually move to a state where each of us tries to be as senior in a category as possible. The end state could well be that it takes years to get off of reserve on any airplane.
Have you looked at the number of retirements coming up? I acknowledged a long time ago that the cream on top would become thicker in all categories. But you certainly wouldn't have to wait until you are 63 to fly international if you didn't want to. While I'd like to fly the 74 or 777, I have no interest in sitting reserve when I can hold them... therefore I won't ever bid them. That would probably change with LBP, and no that is not my ulterior motive. I am happy on the airplane I am on, and have no intention of going elsewhere. But for the other argument, we are labor that is chained to the equipment the company buys. "Incentive" is an interesting word.... I would use the word "forced"....
Ya'll keep dragging me back into this argument. Stop it. And don't biyatch when you get displaced and take a paycut someday due to downsizing. I am really gonna try to resist arguing this anymore.
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