Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
05-26-2014, 07:42 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
This is just another way of saying there should never be any other entity representing Delta pilots except ALPA. Never. Because any future new representing agency would be "drawing themselves outside the circle of unity in ALPA." That's fine that you hold that opinion, but it needs to be clear.
Carl
Carl
DPA supporters have been begged to get involved in the process. Mostly they have refused this invitation. Rather than to participate, some have followed their leadership into representational irrelevance followed by criticism and outrage that the process they refused has failed to consider their opinion.
Clearly, one can not have it both ways. If you have an idea how we as a pilot group and association can function while actively undermining our representatives I am all ears. My opinion is that shooting your rep in the back weakens his back bone.
How does after the fact criticism (which is mostly untrue) help us? How does waiting and hoping the ship sinks help the passengers?
If you want to mutiny, please just do it already. I support your legal right to a vote. This has now drug on for four plus years. Otherwise if you don't like the direction we are sailing in there is plenty of opportunities on the bridge and in the engine room.
05-26-2014, 07:44 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: maddoggy dog
Posts: 1,026
IF that's true, it's a stunning display of incompetence by our side. Stunning. Lack of communication led to the pilots revolting, leading to our side begging management to save them, leading to management feeling they had the hammer to take back what they previously agreed to. Did we really just throw away the differential of 5:15 ADG between June 1 and November?
If true, words absolutely fail me.
Carl
If true, words absolutely fail me.
Carl
Drama Queen! Lol.
05-26-2014, 08:04 AM
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
05-26-2014, 08:13 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,576
BB,
Two wrongs don't make a right. Your friend is a big boy and knew he would face attacks both legit and frivolous when he ran. I have disagreed with his stance on a number of issues and have hashed it out via text, email, phone calls and FB messenger. He doesn't need, nor IMHO wants you being his protector. On another note, what is your fetish with constantly knocking NWA and it's former employees? You barely had 9 months at Delta prior to the merger announcement.
Two wrongs don't make a right. Your friend is a big boy and knew he would face attacks both legit and frivolous when he ran. I have disagreed with his stance on a number of issues and have hashed it out via text, email, phone calls and FB messenger. He doesn't need, nor IMHO wants you being his protector. On another note, what is your fetish with constantly knocking NWA and it's former employees? You barely had 9 months at Delta prior to the merger announcement.
How can it not be clear?
DPA supporters have been begged to get involved in the process. Mostly they have refused this invitation. Rather than to [PHP][/PHP]participate, some have followed their leadership into representational irrelevance followed by criticism and outrage that the process they refused has failed to consider their opinion.
Clearly, one can not have it both ways. If you have an idea how we as a pilot group and association can function while actively undermining our representatives I am all ears. My opinion is that shooting your rep in the back weakens his back bone.
How does after the fact criticism (which is mostly untrue) help us? How does waiting and hoping the ship sinks help the passengers?
If you want to mutiny, please just do it already. I support your legal right to a vote. This has now drug on for four plus years. Otherwise if you don't like the direction we are sailing in there is plenty of opportunities on the bridge and in the engine room.
DPA supporters have been begged to get involved in the process. Mostly they have refused this invitation. Rather than to [PHP][/PHP]participate, some have followed their leadership into representational irrelevance followed by criticism and outrage that the process they refused has failed to consider their opinion.
Clearly, one can not have it both ways. If you have an idea how we as a pilot group and association can function while actively undermining our representatives I am all ears. My opinion is that shooting your rep in the back weakens his back bone.
How does after the fact criticism (which is mostly untrue) help us? How does waiting and hoping the ship sinks help the passengers?
If you want to mutiny, please just do it already. I support your legal right to a vote. This has now drug on for four plus years. Otherwise if you don't like the direction we are sailing in there is plenty of opportunities on the bridge and in the engine room.
05-26-2014, 08:18 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: No to large RJs
Posts: 369
I am confused. Lately your posts have been very targeted at me, mostly for stuff which is the opposite of what was written. I will sign off and apologize for whatever you think I wrote that you found offensive.
Carl went after my friends unfairly. I take you are a Carl fan. That's fine.
The DPA intentionally draws themselves outside the circle of unity in ALPA. When they care to join in and participate, they are welcome. However, publishing inaccurate information is not helpful to the mission of improving the pay and working conditions of Delta pilots (a cause we ostensibly share regardless of representational inclination).
Carl went after my friends unfairly. I take you are a Carl fan. That's fine.
The DPA intentionally draws themselves outside the circle of unity in ALPA. When they care to join in and participate, they are welcome. However, publishing inaccurate information is not helpful to the mission of improving the pay and working conditions of Delta pilots (a cause we ostensibly share regardless of representational inclination).
You are trying to paint people in this or that camp. Carl, me whomever. When half of the guys on property supported DPA at one time or another, you are going to have a hard time bringing people under the ALPA umbrella by harping on the DPA. A stumbling block towards unity.
As far as me, I am for Delta pilots. End of story. ALPA is our agent and will be for C2015. I support our union. I will get angry with the best of them when I see top/down nonsense that just happened which is obviously not supported by our group. The guys who seem to be more concerned with the politics of ALPA, protecting ALPA at all cost and defending an obvious lemon (CDOs), will draw me out of lurk status every time!
True unity happens when we have common goals. ALPA has its own from time to time and we have to keep their feet to the fire. The line pilots just did that and I am proud to be part of this group.
05-26-2014, 08:53 AM
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
How can it not be clear?
DPA supporters have been begged to get involved in the process. Mostly they have refused this invitation. Rather than to participate, some have followed their leadership into representational irrelevance followed by criticism and outrage that the process they refused has failed to consider their opinion.
DPA supporters have been begged to get involved in the process. Mostly they have refused this invitation. Rather than to participate, some have followed their leadership into representational irrelevance followed by criticism and outrage that the process they refused has failed to consider their opinion.
That's not what I'm doing. I hoped that we could rid ourselves ALPA national but the pilots appear to have spoken on that. Then and now I supported DALPA by staying active and giving my reps my thoughts on all subjects.
If that is what's needed for our reps to pay attention when we speak, then I hope DPA stays right where they are...even if they never make it to 51%.
Carl
05-26-2014, 08:55 AM
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
You are one dirty player and I just lost all respect for you. The latter quote was from a long time ago over a different subject! The quote was from c2012 over what I thought to be misleading language by our chairman. It has nothing to do with this argument. I guess you are upset someone is calling you out. I just find it over the top hypocritical of you to sit on your high horse all the time and preach unity when you are being overly divisive.
You are trying to paint people in this or that camp. Carl, me whomever. When half of the guys on property supported DPA at one time or another, you are going to have a hard time bringing people under the ALPA umbrella by harping on the DPA. A stumbling block towards unity.
As far as me, I am for Delta pilots. End of story. ALPA is our agent and will be for C2015. I support our union. I will get angry with the best of them when I see top/down nonsense that just happened which is obviously not supported by our group. The guys who seem to be more concerned with the politics of ALPA, protecting ALPA at all cost and defending an obvious lemon (CDOs), will draw me out of lurk status every time!
True unity happens when we have common goals. ALPA has its own from time to time and we have to keep their feet to the fire. The line pilots just did that and I am proud to be part of this group.
You are trying to paint people in this or that camp. Carl, me whomever. When half of the guys on property supported DPA at one time or another, you are going to have a hard time bringing people under the ALPA umbrella by harping on the DPA. A stumbling block towards unity.
As far as me, I am for Delta pilots. End of story. ALPA is our agent and will be for C2015. I support our union. I will get angry with the best of them when I see top/down nonsense that just happened which is obviously not supported by our group. The guys who seem to be more concerned with the politics of ALPA, protecting ALPA at all cost and defending an obvious lemon (CDOs), will draw me out of lurk status every time!
True unity happens when we have common goals. ALPA has its own from time to time and we have to keep their feet to the fire. The line pilots just did that and I am proud to be part of this group.
Happy Memorial Day to everyone and a world of respect to our veterans.
Back to lurk mode.
Carl
05-26-2014, 10:54 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,503
That is a true and accurate statement. Don't know where shiznits info came from.
05-26-2014, 11:05 AM
Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,991
Hey I may be a rock... but can someone explain how the 5:15 ADG change will actually affect my paycheck as a reserve that never ends up meeting the reserve guarentee? I'm assuming all this will do is increase the time a trip is worth for a reserve when, in the past, it might have been less than a regular line holder, and might fill up your month faster. But in categories that are not typically stressed and guys don't usually work every reserve day, will reserves actually see the increase in their pay? As far as I can tell on a daily basis, the only thing that changes in my category (junior NB) is I can't make it in to base the day of a trip or SC anymore... that extra two hours was the difference between a night in a hotel and a no-brainer commute early the day of...
Red,
I too never fill up when bidding reserve but this might come into play with reserve GS pay. I thought we could still use the two hours to commute on the first day of reserve?
Scoop
05-26-2014, 11:48 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: Left, left, left right left....
Posts: 911
Carl
That's a total copout and fallacious justification. It doesn't matter how top down or outside the circle you perceive it - unless DALPA declares Marshal Law those who positions you consider counter productive to the Delta pilots can be defeated in an election, regular or recall.
There are enough DPA card holders in every base if they participated that they would be defining the circle AND who is in it regardless of what the current insiders want. There are enough supporters where if there was even a thread of organization and leadership they could elect/recall Reps at will and control the direction of the MEC, and future negotiations literally within several months.
Even now with your tacit admission that there will not be enough cards the DPA fails to change its focus and seize the strategic opportunity in front of it and continues with it's failed tactics. I guess instead of participating, they'll just continue to weaken our union and unity going in to C2015 rather than defining the negotiating terms and who holds the votes.
That inner circle you revile thanks the DPA for their ineffectiveness and their continued job security.
DPA always considered that begging of getting involved in the process as a total waste of energy for two reasons. First is that DALPA is a totally top-down organization that does not like or welcome opinions from outside the circle. Even from reps who are seen to be outside the circle. Second is that any official involvement by DPA in any of theses last two disasters (MEC chairman recall and this CDO insertion/removal process) would have been blamed on DPA because of their meddling. DPA understood that and just focused on trying to get the cards. Though the card drive looks like it's not going to be enough, I supported their overall strategy to stay out and let DALPA handle DALPA business.
There are enough DPA card holders in every base if they participated that they would be defining the circle AND who is in it regardless of what the current insiders want. There are enough supporters where if there was even a thread of organization and leadership they could elect/recall Reps at will and control the direction of the MEC, and future negotiations literally within several months.
Even now with your tacit admission that there will not be enough cards the DPA fails to change its focus and seize the strategic opportunity in front of it and continues with it's failed tactics. I guess instead of participating, they'll just continue to weaken our union and unity going in to C2015 rather than defining the negotiating terms and who holds the votes.
That inner circle you revile thanks the DPA for their ineffectiveness and their continued job security.
Last edited by Fly4hire; 05-26-2014 at 12:33 PM.
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