Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
05-25-2014, 06:18 AM
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,730
Hey I may be a rock... but can someone explain how the 5:15 ADG change will actually affect my paycheck as a reserve that never ends up meeting the reserve guarentee? I'm assuming all this will do is increase the time a trip is worth for a reserve when, in the past, it might have been less than a regular line holder, and might fill up your month faster. But in categories that are not typically stressed and guys don't usually work every reserve day, will reserves actually see the increase in their pay? As far as I can tell on a daily basis, the only thing that changes in my category (junior NB) is I can't make it in to base the day of a trip or SC anymore... that extra two hours was the difference between a night in a hotel and a no-brainer commute early the day of...
5:15/dy. for 16 days flying = 84hrs. pay, I'm pretty sure that will fill you up most months and you'll still have 14 days off. Obviously the company didn't give that to us for free, the change to the SC and notifications being an example of what it cost.
05-25-2014, 06:35 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 762
But hasn't the notice for short call been increased by the same two hours from 10 to 12? IOW, yesterday I got 10 hours notice for short call and could use the first two of those hours to commute. Now, I get 12 hours notice and use the same two hours (the ones from 10 to 12) to commute.
What's the difference?
What's the difference?
05-25-2014, 06:43 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: DAL FO
Posts: 2,169
The 5:15 ADG will be applied to your rotation the same way it is now at 4:30 ADG.
Example under current ADG of 4:30:
RES pilot flies a 2 day trip. Day one is 1 leg from ATL-SAV with a block of 1:05. Day 2 is one 1 leg back to ATL for another 1:10. Total block on the trip is 2:15. This pilot would receive pay/credit of 9:00, which would also reduce his RES guarantee by 9:00. As soon as this pilot reaches his guarantee for the month (which can be lower than other pilots in his category due to VTS) he is "full" for the month.
Example under ADG of 5:15 which is effective for the NOV 2014 bid period:
Same trip. The RES pilot now receives 10:30 (same as a REG pilot) of pay/credit and his guarantee is offset by the same amount.
A :45 minute/day difference may not sound like a lot, but it will have an impact on when RES pilots throughout the system time out. RES Guarantee for every category is between 72 and 80 hours every month - and is adjusted downwards for individual pilots with VTS/ML/etc.
Comparing apples to apples, just using ADG, and assuming a RES pilot doesn't credit more than ADG on any of his trips:
72 hour guarantee:
ADG 4:30 - pilot has to work 16 days to "fill up"
ADG 5:15 - pilot has to work 14 (13.72) days to "fill up"
Difference: 2 days
80 hour guarantee:
ADG 4:30 - pilot has to work 18 (17.777) days to "fill up"
ADG 5:15 - pilot has to work 16 (15.24) days to "fill up"
Difference: 2 days
The 2 day difference is where some of the "extra 137 pilots needed" come from in the recent LOA. Again, the assumptions above are based on only getting ADG on trips. There are many reasons that a trip would credit more than ADG, so the pilot would fill up faster.
Additionally, 5:15 ADG will now count on GS trips as well. The example ATL-SAV-ATL trip might have been worth around 5 hours (due to Trip credit, with a min day of 2:00) pre C2012. C2012 made that GS worth 9 hours for a RSV (with the 4:30 ADG) and beginning in November the same trip will be worth 10:30. I think we will see RES become more popular again now that trips like this are worth the same as what a REG pilot gets.
The other advantage of 5:15 ADG vs DPA is DH only duty periods don't take away from an otherwise productive trip. Every day now averages to 5:15 whether the pilot flies a leg or not. This helps REG and RES pilots alike.
05-25-2014, 06:43 AM
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
If you 'never fill up' then you are right, it won't affect you. If however you almost fill up...it will help fill you up.
5:15/dy. for 16 days flying = 84hrs. pay, I'm pretty sure that will fill you up most months and you'll still have 14 days off. Obviously the company didn't give that to us for free, the change to the SC and notifications being an example of what it cost.
5:15/dy. for 16 days flying = 84hrs. pay, I'm pretty sure that will fill you up most months and you'll still have 14 days off. Obviously the company didn't give that to us for free, the change to the SC and notifications being an example of what it cost.
Carl
05-25-2014, 06:52 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: DAL FO
Posts: 2,169
So I guess our MEC is holding firm to the concept of cost neutrality (or close to it) even in times of record sustained profits and pilots having leverage? Do we just need to succumb to the co-company/union vision of any gains needing to be offset by concessions?
Carl
Carl
05-25-2014, 06:57 AM
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Fired by Delta with your license still clean means many other opportunities as a pilot. No license or a tainted license means no more opportunities as a pilot.
Bottom line is that you can never ever compromise safety and your license by flying fatigued. Never. It's the worst career decision you can make.
Carl
05-25-2014, 06:57 AM
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2011
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 65
Are we sure the two hour commute is only applicable on the first day now? I've used it in the past after the first day on call, but are we positive that option is now gone after the first day?
05-25-2014, 06:59 AM
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
05-25-2014, 07:00 AM
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
05-25-2014, 07:03 AM
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Carl,
Reread carefully the quoted C1 update:
This does not infer that direction was given to pursue CDO's, but what they received was different than briefed. Remember NC direction takes place in Executive session and cannot be directly discussed. I read the C1 update as a sideways way of saying that direction was not given to pursue CDO's or was significantly different than what they were briefed on. The NC can suggest courses of action for MEC approval without waiting for direction to come up with ideas. The same ambiguity is being spun to suggest that direction to pursue CDO's was given. I don't read it that way.
I suggest you call the C1 and your own Reps, and was as suggested, the NC directly.
Reread carefully the quoted C1 update:
This does not infer that direction was given to pursue CDO's, but what they received was different than briefed. Remember NC direction takes place in Executive session and cannot be directly discussed. I read the C1 update as a sideways way of saying that direction was not given to pursue CDO's or was significantly different than what they were briefed on. The NC can suggest courses of action for MEC approval without waiting for direction to come up with ideas. The same ambiguity is being spun to suggest that direction to pursue CDO's was given. I don't read it that way.
I suggest you call the C1 and your own Reps, and was as suggested, the NC directly.
Carl
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