gloopy

I'm not sure if I'm ready to make "constructive engagement" a scapegoat , however you would even define that anyway.

I just think the company is better at negotiating than we have been on most things. Part of it is that we get so spooled up over a million issues anytime we negotiate that we spam ourselves. This 117 thing was almost entirely about reserve work rules, and most of that boiled down to two issues; day one report and long call length, both hinging on the need to find a solution to the 3 hour notification requirement that no longer meshed with the FAR's.

So we took the primary issue and tried to make it about rig pay, 330 bunks, CDO's and open time assignments. In the end we ended up with the same long call length, a revolutionary industry wide fantasy (from a management perspective) concept of binding notification from first voice mail attempt and day one reports 2 hours earlier than what even the company attempted to impose.

The company went in there in an absolute major league jam and walked out with an incredibly friendly solution with some mind blowing little embedded victories and it only costs them $40million. We were just out matched.

80ktsClamp

A little plastic airplane demo time for tonight:

newKnow

About a month ago, I was on the jumpseat for my commuter flight home and the F/O got rerouted into another leg, after his redeye into JFK.

It wasn't scheduled that way.

sailingfun

He should have refused it. Pilots should know their contract.

Imapilot2

yup lots of them. I don't know how to paste them here.

its the Alaska flights.

#3375 pairing for example 737

show at midnight

1560 anc 0105 sea 0528
2397 sea 0715 slc 1011


So about ten at night you are showering, eating getting ready, van 11 something for a midnight show..... I would collapse in sea....but no its time for another flight. Holly sh!t batman.

badflaps

Fox Business liked The Delta this morning..

Timbo

About 20+ years ago we had a similar trip in the BOS 757 category. It was the last day of a 4 day, you left SFO late, flew to CVG, then sat for two hours, then flew on to BOS, arriving about 9am. It went very junior, everybody hated it, the leg to BOS, right into the rising sun, was killer. I flew a couple times as a junior line holder or on reserve.

Harry Alger came up to BOS for a lounge visit one day, and someone mentioned that POS trip, and how unsafe that leg to BOS was. Harry said, "If you think it's unsafe, then call crew scheds from CVG and get off the trip."

Since it was the last leg of a 4 day, going home, he was confident nobody would get off the trip in CVG, but much to his surprise, it started happening quite a bit!

The next month's bid packages didn't have the trip any more and I haven't seen one since, until now.

Imapilot2

To make this worse its MID TRIP! fly all day...next day fly all night....next fly all day. Man I can't do that. I'm going to be a zombie. Its one thing to end on a red eye and go home but this is crazy.

Timbo

I suggest you do exactly as those before you have done; get off the trip.

They will have to find replacements. When they've run out of replacements, they will have to cancel flights. Until that happens, it's not a problem for them.

Nothing gets 'fixed' until it becomes a 'problem' for them, as we just saw with this latest T/A. It's not a problem until it's THEIR problem, then, and only then, will they be motivated to fix it.

Red Five

Hey I may be a rock... but can someone explain how the 5:15 ADG change will actually affect my paycheck as a reserve that never ends up meeting the reserve guarentee? I'm assuming all this will do is increase the time a trip is worth for a reserve when, in the past, it might have been less than a regular line holder, and might fill up your month faster. But in categories that are not typically stressed and guys don't usually work every reserve day, will reserves actually see the increase in their pay? As far as I can tell on a daily basis, the only thing that changes in my category (junior NB) is I can't make it in to base the day of a trip or SC anymore... that extra two hours was the difference between a night in a hotel and a no-brainer commute early the day of...