Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
05-24-2014, 04:23 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: Left, left, left right left....
Posts: 911
Carl,
Reread carefully the quoted C1 update:
This does not infer that direction was given to pursue CDO's, but what they received was different than briefed. Remember NC direction takes place in Executive session and cannot be directly discussed. I read the C1 update as a sideways way of saying that direction was not given to pursue CDO's or was significantly different than what they were briefed on. The NC can suggest courses of action for MEC approval without waiting for direction to come up with ideas. The same ambiguity is being spun to suggest that direction to pursue CDO's was given. I don't read it that way.
I suggest you call the C1 and your own Reps, and was as suggested, the NC directly.
Reread carefully the quoted C1 update:
"The tentative agreement reached last week by the negotiators met the direction the MEC had provided to them over the course of multiple meetings, including a “mid-course adjustment” two months ago. During the 7-day review period required by the MEC Policy Manual, it became apparent that the modeling and assumptions regarding Split Duty Period (SDP) flying (aka “CDOs”, “Illegals”, “Stand-ups”) was not what we envisioned when we gave direction to the negotiating committee several months ago. Also, your feedback during the last week solidified our view that the addition of SDPs was not in the best interest of Delta pilots. It’s important to note that the 7-day review period was established to allow exactly this type of reassessment."
I suggest you call the C1 and your own Reps, and was as suggested, the NC directly.
05-24-2014, 04:34 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: Left, left, left right left....
Posts: 911
I was referring to when the MEC had it for a week before they eventually got the votes to pass it on for MEMRAT.
05-24-2014, 04:53 PM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
While we were arguing the inane and inconsequential, a US Marine who had his leg blown off won Lime Rock today 
Happy Memorial Day!
Happy Memorial Day!
05-24-2014, 04:53 PM
Straight QOL, homie
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
Posts: 4,202
Now the whole CDO is being blamed on some "rogue north pilots" by some here. And yet the company "couldn't care less about CDO's". Why did we need to give up another hour on long call to take something back the company was supposedly not interested in to begin with?
The process at ALPA is broken. Not for logistic or monetary reasons. It is my belief they don't set up an efficient process to let the membership get more involved because they (the MEC) do not want to give up control. I believe management also does not want the union to give up their ability to make unilateral decisions. It certainly works to their advantage.
It's interesting to watch the "group think" and top down managerial philosophy indoctrinated into all who join the upper representation. Politics are rampant with many focusing on upward advancement while trying to align with those they feel will take them the furthest. They are taught that "line pilots" are unsophisticated thinkers incapable of understanding how important a tight knit liaison with management is in getting things done. Therefore the secrecy and control. Unfortunately this personalized relationship with management can cause loyalty issues for fear of offending the high powered friends they have become so close to.
It would be relatively easy to use the various electronic means available today to involve pilots through polling, live Q and A, vetting, voting, etc at a very reasonable cost. A lot of guys would take the time to weigh in. Make it easy instead of layering barriers to entry with antiquated policy/protocol.
We preach CRM in the cockpit but our union is not interested in creating the structure to best utilize CRM with regard to communication, contract/TA's, work rules, side letters, compensation, etc. And then they feign disappointment and confusion when there is an uproar as we just saw. And yet nothing ever changes. No lessons learned. No protocol changed. They continue in their divisive ways. They keep tight fisted on control and we keep making the same dumb mistakes, divided as ever. You have to laugh when unity is preached, while very little is put into place to achieve it.
The process at ALPA is broken. Not for logistic or monetary reasons. It is my belief they don't set up an efficient process to let the membership get more involved because they (the MEC) do not want to give up control. I believe management also does not want the union to give up their ability to make unilateral decisions. It certainly works to their advantage.
It's interesting to watch the "group think" and top down managerial philosophy indoctrinated into all who join the upper representation. Politics are rampant with many focusing on upward advancement while trying to align with those they feel will take them the furthest. They are taught that "line pilots" are unsophisticated thinkers incapable of understanding how important a tight knit liaison with management is in getting things done. Therefore the secrecy and control. Unfortunately this personalized relationship with management can cause loyalty issues for fear of offending the high powered friends they have become so close to.
It would be relatively easy to use the various electronic means available today to involve pilots through polling, live Q and A, vetting, voting, etc at a very reasonable cost. A lot of guys would take the time to weigh in. Make it easy instead of layering barriers to entry with antiquated policy/protocol.
We preach CRM in the cockpit but our union is not interested in creating the structure to best utilize CRM with regard to communication, contract/TA's, work rules, side letters, compensation, etc. And then they feign disappointment and confusion when there is an uproar as we just saw. And yet nothing ever changes. No lessons learned. No protocol changed. They continue in their divisive ways. They keep tight fisted on control and we keep making the same dumb mistakes, divided as ever. You have to laugh when unity is preached, while very little is put into place to achieve it.
05-24-2014, 06:15 PM
meh
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 828
Now the whole CDO is being blamed on some "rogue north pilots" by some here. And yet the company "couldn't care less about CDO's". Why did we need to give up another hour on long call to take something back the company was supposedly not interested in to begin with?
The process at ALPA is broken. Not for logistic or monetary reasons. It is my belief they don't set up an efficient process to let the membership get more involved because they (the MEC) do not want to give up control. I believe management also does not want the union to give up their ability to make unilateral decisions. It certainly works to their advantage.
It's interesting to watch the "group think" and top down managerial philosophy indoctrinated into all who join the upper representation. Politics are rampant with many focusing on upward advancement while trying to align with those they feel will take them the furthest. They are taught that "line pilots" are unsophisticated thinkers incapable of understanding how important a tight knit liaison with management is in getting things done. Therefore the secrecy and control. Unfortunately this personalized relationship with management can cause loyalty issues for fear of offending the high powered friends they have become so close to.
It would be relatively easy to use the various electronic means available today to involve pilots through polling, live Q and A, vetting, voting, etc at a very reasonable cost. A lot of guys would take the time to weigh in. Make it easy instead of layering barriers to entry with antiquated policy/protocol.
We preach CRM in the cockpit but our union is not interested in creating the structure to best utilize CRM with regard to communication, contract/TA's, work rules, side letters, compensation, etc. And then they feign disappointment and confusion when there is an uproar as we just saw. And yet nothing ever changes. No lessons learned. No protocol changed. They continue in their divisive ways. They keep tight fisted on control and we keep making the same dumb mistakes, divided as ever. You have to laugh when unity is preached, while very little is put into place to achieve it.
The process at ALPA is broken. Not for logistic or monetary reasons. It is my belief they don't set up an efficient process to let the membership get more involved because they (the MEC) do not want to give up control. I believe management also does not want the union to give up their ability to make unilateral decisions. It certainly works to their advantage.
It's interesting to watch the "group think" and top down managerial philosophy indoctrinated into all who join the upper representation. Politics are rampant with many focusing on upward advancement while trying to align with those they feel will take them the furthest. They are taught that "line pilots" are unsophisticated thinkers incapable of understanding how important a tight knit liaison with management is in getting things done. Therefore the secrecy and control. Unfortunately this personalized relationship with management can cause loyalty issues for fear of offending the high powered friends they have become so close to.
It would be relatively easy to use the various electronic means available today to involve pilots through polling, live Q and A, vetting, voting, etc at a very reasonable cost. A lot of guys would take the time to weigh in. Make it easy instead of layering barriers to entry with antiquated policy/protocol.
We preach CRM in the cockpit but our union is not interested in creating the structure to best utilize CRM with regard to communication, contract/TA's, work rules, side letters, compensation, etc. And then they feign disappointment and confusion when there is an uproar as we just saw. And yet nothing ever changes. No lessons learned. No protocol changed. They continue in their divisive ways. They keep tight fisted on control and we keep making the same dumb mistakes, divided as ever. You have to laugh when unity is preached, while very little is put into place to achieve it.
05-24-2014, 06:38 PM
meh
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 828
some data points to support previous posts, for BB and 80 consideration:
I normally find what you both post to be considered and intelligent.
80-- from the very beginning of this, I was saying to myself, "WTH, how did 80 get so much inside info on this? Is he a rep now or what? And why is he so overly enthusiastic on this TA, it must be a totally awesome deal if 80 is giving it his stamp!"
... it was a turd as presented, and I was left reallllly questioning what was going on with 80, in the past he never tried to sell stuff like this. I was dissappointed. Carl, thanks for your thoughts--much of what you said I was thinking. Purple... it seems that if you type more than a sentence or two, you get smarter and smarter. If I needed a lawyer, and you were a lawyer, I'd hire you. LeineLodge, I keep picturing Data from StarTrek when I read your stuff--calm, rational, unemotional. Thanks all for your time on thoughts on this, there's probably hundreds like me that get our info from this thread and your considered thoughts.
BB-- your stuff is usually awesome. I read every post on this thread, and I have always thought, "If BB were willing to be a union guy, I'd trust him and want him as a rep". The last two days, your posts were probably factually OK... but I'm left feeling you're rabble rousing, when usually I consider you a paragon of unity. Just an input for your consideration as an average reader, not desiring to generate any sort of argument or discussion, nor am I qualified to discuss your posts last few days really. What you write is probably more influential that you realize, just want to give you an input that warring with Carl isn't a good path for you, you're 'sposed to be the "calming effect" around here.
And *** since I'm writing-- Gloopy, you've been 100% spot on from my perspective this week. EdGrimley, where have you been, your thoughts are toight like a tiger!
I normally find what you both post to be considered and intelligent.
80-- from the very beginning of this, I was saying to myself, "WTH, how did 80 get so much inside info on this? Is he a rep now or what? And why is he so overly enthusiastic on this TA, it must be a totally awesome deal if 80 is giving it his stamp!"
... it was a turd as presented, and I was left reallllly questioning what was going on with 80, in the past he never tried to sell stuff like this. I was dissappointed. Carl, thanks for your thoughts--much of what you said I was thinking. Purple... it seems that if you type more than a sentence or two, you get smarter and smarter. If I needed a lawyer, and you were a lawyer, I'd hire you. LeineLodge, I keep picturing Data from StarTrek when I read your stuff--calm, rational, unemotional. Thanks all for your time on thoughts on this, there's probably hundreds like me that get our info from this thread and your considered thoughts.
BB-- your stuff is usually awesome. I read every post on this thread, and I have always thought, "If BB were willing to be a union guy, I'd trust him and want him as a rep". The last two days, your posts were probably factually OK... but I'm left feeling you're rabble rousing, when usually I consider you a paragon of unity. Just an input for your consideration as an average reader, not desiring to generate any sort of argument or discussion, nor am I qualified to discuss your posts last few days really. What you write is probably more influential that you realize, just want to give you an input that warring with Carl isn't a good path for you, you're 'sposed to be the "calming effect" around here.
And *** since I'm writing-- Gloopy, you've been 100% spot on from my perspective this week. EdGrimley, where have you been, your thoughts are toight like a tiger!
05-24-2014, 07:14 PM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
some data points to support previous posts, for BB and 80 consideration:
I normally find what you both post to be considered and intelligent.
80-- from the very beginning of this, I was saying to myself, "WTH, how did 80 get so much inside info on this? Is he a rep now or what? And why is he so overly enthusiastic on this TA, it must be a totally awesome deal if 80 is giving it his stamp!"
... it was a turd as presented, and I was left reallllly questioning what was going on with 80, in the past he never tried to sell stuff like this. I was dissappointed. Carl, thanks for your thoughts--much of what you said I was thinking. Purple... it seems that if you type more than a sentence or two, you get smarter and smarter. If I needed a lawyer, and you were a lawyer, I'd hire you. LeineLodge, I keep picturing Data from StarTrek when I read your stuff--calm, rational, unemotional. Thanks all for your time on thoughts on this, there's probably hundreds like me that get our info from this thread and your considered thoughts.
BB-- your stuff is usually awesome. I read every post on this thread, and I have always thought, "If BB were willing to be a union guy, I'd trust him and want him as a rep". The last two days, your posts were probably factually OK... but I'm left feeling you're rabble rousing, when usually I consider you a paragon of unity. Just an input for your consideration as an average reader, not desiring to generate any sort of argument or discussion, nor am I qualified to discuss your posts last few days really. What you write is probably more influential that you realize, just want to give you an input that warring with Carl isn't a good path for you, you're 'sposed to be the "calming effect" around here.
And *** since I'm writing-- Gloopy, you've been 100% spot on from my perspective this week. EdGrimley, where have you been, your thoughts are toight like a tiger!
I normally find what you both post to be considered and intelligent.
80-- from the very beginning of this, I was saying to myself, "WTH, how did 80 get so much inside info on this? Is he a rep now or what? And why is he so overly enthusiastic on this TA, it must be a totally awesome deal if 80 is giving it his stamp!"
... it was a turd as presented, and I was left reallllly questioning what was going on with 80, in the past he never tried to sell stuff like this. I was dissappointed. Carl, thanks for your thoughts--much of what you said I was thinking. Purple... it seems that if you type more than a sentence or two, you get smarter and smarter. If I needed a lawyer, and you were a lawyer, I'd hire you. LeineLodge, I keep picturing Data from StarTrek when I read your stuff--calm, rational, unemotional. Thanks all for your time on thoughts on this, there's probably hundreds like me that get our info from this thread and your considered thoughts.
BB-- your stuff is usually awesome. I read every post on this thread, and I have always thought, "If BB were willing to be a union guy, I'd trust him and want him as a rep". The last two days, your posts were probably factually OK... but I'm left feeling you're rabble rousing, when usually I consider you a paragon of unity. Just an input for your consideration as an average reader, not desiring to generate any sort of argument or discussion, nor am I qualified to discuss your posts last few days really. What you write is probably more influential that you realize, just want to give you an input that warring with Carl isn't a good path for you, you're 'sposed to be the "calming effect" around here.
And *** since I'm writing-- Gloopy, you've been 100% spot on from my perspective this week. EdGrimley, where have you been, your thoughts are toight like a tiger!
05-24-2014, 07:16 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Captain Jack
Posts: 1,003
To all you guys that have been doing these for years. Since when did we start doing flights after we get in from a redeye? I thought after the redeye we went straight to the hotel and passed out. Doing another flight right after landing from a redeye is crazy.
05-24-2014, 07:20 PM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
That's supposed to be a big no-no... got an example?
05-24-2014, 07:45 PM
meh
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 828
Never heard of one on the 73, or seen one like that.
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