Timbo

CDO + SDP = STD!

You don't want to get one, but if you do, you probably won't be able to get rid of it!

(I have a feeling we're going to need a lot more Gold Bond, and probably some Vaseline too!)

newKnow

Of all the things to take from FNWA guys, this is what they decide to adopt?

This makes no sense. I'm sure I could get a significant amount of pilots to request that NYC and LAX based pilots get a $2000 per month override for high cost of living and transportation expenses, too.


The MEC is supposed to do what is best for the entire pilot group, not what a significant number of guys want.

CDO's are an issue that no one I know even knew was on the table. If so, I'm 100% sure a "significant" amount of pilots would have risen up to oppose their introduction.

Maybe we should pass a resolution that if any CDO trip is not requested in an initial PBS run, or becomes uncovered because of a sick call, someone from the select list of "significant" CDO supporters, will fly them. Sort of like the flight attendants have at their satellite bases.

Maybe, some of the MEC members should get qualified on the proper aircraft, so they can add their names to the select list of "significant" supporters, too.

I'm sure they were called "illegals" at NWA for a reason.

JungleBus

Yikes. I was kinda ho-hum about most of the TA before and leaning against CDOs but willing to reconsider with the right protections.

I've done several months worth of CDOs at Compass. They sucked then, and I say that as someone who flew them in his 20s, who is a night owl and has always been able to sleep on command. I found myself flying into MSP a few times with the sun coming up and me slapping myself to stay awake, praying to God that the weather and mx stayed ok. The CAs I flew them with, and the FOs I flew them with after I upgraded, were either too junior to hold anything else, or had kids or businesses on the side that took up their time during the day. One of them would later die in a road accident the day after a string of CDOs; it's believed he fell asleep at the wheel.

Here's the kicker: the proposed language, as posted by Check Essential, is worse than what we had at Compass in some respects! You heard that right, the protections in this TA don't even match a regional contract.

At Compass the lowest ground time CDOs could be reduced to even in case of IROPS was 5 hours. Granted, that typically translated to 3.5-4.5 hours behind the door, but that's better than 3 behind the door.

At Compass CDOs were required to be sequestered to CDO-only lines. PBS could not mix them with regular flying. The proposed TA contains no such protections.

This is not the language you want to fly CDOs under. For them not to be a safety issue, I'd allow CDOs to be mixed with regular flying only with several XX days separating them, require that reserves be assigned a CDO at least 24 hrs prior and get a compensatory XX day after, and require 5 hrs behind the door IROPS or not. I wouldn't consider the TA as written to be suitable for a regional airline contract, much less Delta Air Lines! It's nutty that we're even talking about this.

newKnow

Thanks Jungle.

I did two at NWA. One as a brand new s/o and the other as a junior DC-9 captain. They might appear good on paper, but that assumes things go well.

The last one I did, we had to dodge thunderstorms out of RIC, then hold, and then fly a CATII approach into DTW. I still remember it, because it sucked. Ahem, I mean it was not fun.

Another thing about doing them at NWA is that we went in to relatively easy airports to get into (DTW & MSP) and there were just a few of us. I can imagine that most of these things will be done in and out of Atlanta. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if most of the morning bank into Atlanta won't be CDO's on all types of fleets.

757's coming up from Florida & 320's and DC-9's coming from the surrounding states. All coming together to fly into the busiest airport in the world. Yes, I think Delta uses 757's like Northwest used 320's and they did illegals, too. I don't think too many people should feel like they will be shielded from them.

Carl Spackler

Hate to cast aspersions against the MEC admin that stated this, but it's so far fetched that it smacks of a lie. They either don't have the data to back up that claim or they would claim privacy reasons for withholding it.

Regardless, this issue has no place in negotiations on how to best implement FAR 117...a regulation created to mitigate fatigue. The mere fact that this item is even in this TA shows a lack of focus on both sides. The fact that Donatelli has so proudly touted this TA shows there may not even really be different "sides" here at all.

Carl

FL370

Thank you! My thoughts exactly. This is simply ridiculous.

poostain

As a west coast guy I love the 5:15!!! But the CDO's are I giant step in the wrong direction. Like a lot of guy's on here I can't believe we are considering them. I already emailed my rep with a No vote rec.

80ktsClamp

The 5:15 is a huge deal. I'm really really happy with that, and I think many are understating how big it is... however...

I'm afraid the CDOs are too unrestricted to be of the beneficial value needed. A few should be fine at the pay they are offering and would mitigate the jacked up trips we get with the 117 stuff. However, I believe it is likely too unrestricted in the TA from what I've read thus far.
I'm on the fence and trending toward sending it through another time to clean up the CDO stuff.

Rudder

What routes specifically are being discussed for the augmented trips out of NRT and HND?

Could these effect the ROR layovers? Realize that the benefits of this layover affect only a small number of us but it would be a loss nontheless.

Denny Crane

I would say yes that would most likely be one of them.

Denny