Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
05-21-2014, 04:45 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
In all fairness, a LOT of the pilots I speak with ask for more productive trips. You have to consider what that might mean. The company probably said "OK, but NFW are we paying you 5:15 to sit around on those 30-hour layovers". Which probably led to the solution of breaking some of the trips out of rotations as SDP's.
I'm guessing that the genesis.
One important question about how ADG's might affect non SDP trips is whether it will be applied to each day, or the entire rotation. If it's day by day, the company could not afford to have us fly < 5:15 on the first and last days. Adios commutable trips.
So, since I have no language on the ADG's... Imagine a 3 day trip blocked at 4:15/6:15/4:15. Does it pay:
1) 5:15/6:15/5:15, i.e. 16:45
or
2) the greater of block or 5:15 * 3, i.e. 15:45 > 14:45, i.e. 15:45?
I'm guessing that the genesis.
One important question about how ADG's might affect non SDP trips is whether it will be applied to each day, or the entire rotation. If it's day by day, the company could not afford to have us fly < 5:15 on the first and last days. Adios commutable trips.
So, since I have no language on the ADG's... Imagine a 3 day trip blocked at 4:15/6:15/4:15. Does it pay:
1) 5:15/6:15/5:15, i.e. 16:45
or
2) the greater of block or 5:15 * 3, i.e. 15:45 > 14:45, i.e. 15:45?
05-21-2014, 04:46 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Posts: 463
t-
Just my opinion and gut feeling but I don't think too many pilots will ever be forced to fly these. They are going to be bid by the senior guys and if one drops into open time it will go to a white slip. Obviously though, there will be some people who get one that didn't want it.
Just my opinion and gut feeling but I don't think too many pilots will ever be forced to fly these. They are going to be bid by the senior guys and if one drops into open time it will go to a white slip. Obviously though, there will be some people who get one that didn't want it.
05-21-2014, 04:47 PM
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
The real difficulty here will be the standard problem of politics. "Scrappy" and his team are strongly behind this TA as is Donatelli as stated in his letter. Our reps aren't just faced with the decision of voting their conscience based on our known desires. They're faced with "Scrappy", Donatelli and the rest of the MEC administrators viewing a NO vote by reps as a vote of no confidence against them. Will reps want to deliver that indirect message to the team that are set to take us into Section 6?
I've done CDO's back at NWA. I bid them because they looked so good on paper. With my first two, I got plenty of rest during the day and was unable to sleep during my six hour hotel stay. Last leg home was extremely fatiguing because of no sleep. Next I tried staying active all day so I could sleep during six hour layover. Actual sleep was only about 4 hours and I flew last leg home extremely fatigued due to fighting sleep inertia. Never bid them again.
I'm curious as to how a wrongful death attorney would pursue Delta and the pilot's estate if a CDO pilot caused a fatal car crash on the drive home. Actually, I know exactly what the wrongful death attorneys will do.
Carl
I've done CDO's back at NWA. I bid them because they looked so good on paper. With my first two, I got plenty of rest during the day and was unable to sleep during my six hour hotel stay. Last leg home was extremely fatiguing because of no sleep. Next I tried staying active all day so I could sleep during six hour layover. Actual sleep was only about 4 hours and I flew last leg home extremely fatigued due to fighting sleep inertia. Never bid them again.
I'm curious as to how a wrongful death attorney would pursue Delta and the pilot's estate if a CDO pilot caused a fatal car crash on the drive home. Actually, I know exactly what the wrongful death attorneys will do.
Carl
05-21-2014, 04:49 PM
Sho me da money!
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: B25, Left
Posts: 947
CDO's are a no. Automatic no! But only if we get a vote!
05-21-2014, 04:49 PM
Works Every Weekend
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: 737 ATL
Posts: 3,506
Very well said! Think back to the number of times these things end up going in the pilots favor? They end up much different than what was discussed in negotiations or even sold by the NC/MEC. The company can and will exploit these open ended, poorly written agreements on line at a time. Then we can say "didn't see that coming" and "we'll get em next time"....when the company has what they want and is no longer interested in "constructive engagement".
Those guys have done their homework.
They were well prepared to grill Scrappy about this agreement.
Everybody has their opinion about whether this agreement is good or bad but I don't think the company is sneaking anything past us.
Split-duty trips are on the table. It is a huge decision for the MEC.
But I think they are doing it with their eyes wide open.
If you don't want these split duty trips, e-mail your rep right now.
They vote tomorrow. They are reading their e-mail.
05-21-2014, 04:51 PM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
The real difficulty here will be the standard problem of politics. "Scrappy" and his team are strongly behind this TA as is Donatelli as stated in his letter. Our reps aren't just faced with the decision of voting their conscience based on our known desires. They're faced with "Scrappy", Donatelli and the rest of the MEC administrators viewing a NO vote by reps as a vote of no confidence against them. Will reps want to deliver that indirect message to the team that are set to take us into Section 6?
I've done CDO's back at NWA. I bid them because they looked so good on paper. With my first two, I got plenty of rest during the day and was unable to sleep during my six hour hotel stay. Last leg home was extremely fatiguing because of no sleep. Next I tried staying active all day so I could sleep during six hour layover. Actual sleep was only about 4 hours and I flew last leg home extremely fatigued due to fighting sleep inertia. Never bid them again.
I'm curious as to how a wrongful death attorney would pursue Delta and the pilot's estate if a CDO pilot caused a fatal car crash on the drive home. Actually, I know exactly what the wrongful death attorneys will do.
Carl
I've done CDO's back at NWA. I bid them because they looked so good on paper. With my first two, I got plenty of rest during the day and was unable to sleep during my six hour hotel stay. Last leg home was extremely fatiguing because of no sleep. Next I tried staying active all day so I could sleep during six hour layover. Actual sleep was only about 4 hours and I flew last leg home extremely fatigued due to fighting sleep inertia. Never bid them again.
I'm curious as to how a wrongful death attorney would pursue Delta and the pilot's estate if a CDO pilot caused a fatal car crash on the drive home. Actually, I know exactly what the wrongful death attorneys will do.
Carl
You hit on the head my concern and why I think the SA comparison is invalid. You cannot prepare for the (essentially) IROP that could occur in one of these things. It is a bad idea.
05-21-2014, 04:54 PM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
So... Anyone want to discuss the merits of having open segments known 14:00 prior to report have go through PCS before the company can reroute a pilot already on a rotation?
Good or bad?
How much of an effect will it have on reroutes?
How much of an effect will it have on the WS mafia?
How much of an effect will it have on GS awards?
Dal88, we will have to agree to disagree on how "safe" a CDO is or can be and how professional our pilots handle their rest while on off duty.
Good or bad?
How much of an effect will it have on reroutes?
How much of an effect will it have on the WS mafia?
How much of an effect will it have on GS awards?
Dal88, we will have to agree to disagree on how "safe" a CDO is or can be and how professional our pilots handle their rest while on off duty.
Post 117, if you were going to be sick, and called in inside of 16 hrs, the trip would go as a GS.
I don't know that anyone really did this, but it was possible.
Anyway, if the change is to 14, the company is painting itself into a corner for coverage. Imo
05-21-2014, 04:55 PM
Back on TDY
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Posts: 12,487
05-21-2014, 05:03 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Posts: 710
At this point we might as well reinstate the NWA PWA and paste in the new payrates. Well need KW in CA too.
05-21-2014, 05:03 PM
Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,991
Shiz,
In a world that the company was not 2 steps ahead of us that would be true and would be great. I hope you are correct, but I foresee those trips being modified to increase productivity.
If what you say comes to pass I will obviously be very happy and modify my bidding strategy.
Scoop
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