Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
05-20-2014, 11:34 AM
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Captain, SS Orca
Posts: 96
Or 7:30 if it's one of these CDOs?
FWIW, I did these back in my turboprop commuter days. They were awful. Always went to the reserves. As a new CA on reserve, I got 2 or 3 in a row, don't remember which. After coming in that morning, I called scheduling and told them that if they gave me another one tonight I wouldn't be doing it due to fatigue. We got in a little dust up over them saying I couldn't say I'd be fatigued 10 or 12 or however many hours it was to a potential sign-in. I said, "I appreciate what you're saying, but I'm telling you that I cannot, will-not do another one of these things tonight, period. Call whichever of my bosses you like, but I'm not doing it again."
I never heard anymore about it. Got off reserve and don't know if the "stand-ups" as we called them, stayed around.
I'll read the language, but I'm pretty shocked we are entertaining this. I am a bit confused as to why we are giving anything that could be considered a concession in our current environment. I'd just assume let it play out and file the grievance over the PDs.
FWIW, I did these back in my turboprop commuter days. They were awful. Always went to the reserves. As a new CA on reserve, I got 2 or 3 in a row, don't remember which. After coming in that morning, I called scheduling and told them that if they gave me another one tonight I wouldn't be doing it due to fatigue. We got in a little dust up over them saying I couldn't say I'd be fatigued 10 or 12 or however many hours it was to a potential sign-in. I said, "I appreciate what you're saying, but I'm telling you that I cannot, will-not do another one of these things tonight, period. Call whichever of my bosses you like, but I'm not doing it again."
I never heard anymore about it. Got off reserve and don't know if the "stand-ups" as we called them, stayed around.
I'll read the language, but I'm pretty shocked we are entertaining this. I am a bit confused as to why we are giving anything that could be considered a concession in our current environment. I'd just assume let it play out and file the grievance over the PDs.
05-20-2014, 12:12 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: Left, left, left right left....
Posts: 911
Meet our next wide body...
George
- First flew March 2004
- Seats 350 pax
- Good cargo capacity
- Great for hot and high SA/LA destinations
- Airbus has seven 340-600 available right now
- 4 for the price of 2 engine MX from Rolls
- Virgin is parking their remaining 340-600s
- Used prices dropping to 20-30M
- Average price for a new 777-300 approx. $300M
- Fuel burn only 12% more than 777-300, but 24% less than 747-400
George
05-20-2014, 12:23 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,596
05-20-2014, 12:53 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: Left, left, left right left....
Posts: 911
At the mentioned price what's the break even in years of operation on fuel costs ? That's about an 80% saving on the cost of a large WB. That buys an awful lot of gas. I could see these as a bridge WB for lift now until RFP acft show up in force. RA made money operating the DC9 long past any other carrier. Paid for aircraft give you a lot of flexibility.
05-20-2014, 01:35 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
05-20-2014, 02:22 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: LAX ERA
Posts: 3,457
At the mentioned price what's the break even in years of operation on fuel costs ? That's about an 80% saving on the cost of a large WB. That buys an awful lot of gas. I could see these as a bridge WB for lift now until RFP acft show up in force. RA made money operating the DC9 long past any other carrier. Paid for aircraft give you a lot of flexibility.
But, we are on the leading edge here at APC L&G
Ferd
05-20-2014, 02:27 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: LAX ERA
Posts: 3,457
Actually in a way, yes. If they don't have anything for you by noon on your last day, you can ask to be released. If the next day is a golden day which it is 2 or 3 times a month anyway, its an automatic approval.
Perhaps there is room in there to find bargaining credits to apply to more deserving local pilots though. I'd actually almost second that resolution just to see it play out.
Since your active contempt for commuters is clouding your creative math in counting days off, let's just go nuts with it, shall we:
We have very, very few reports at 1am. Or 2am. Or 3 am. Or 4am. So the vast majority of reserves and line holders always start off with a quarter day off almost every day. With 4 blocks of work per month, that's an extra day off! I wonder if the company knows this? If we agree with this interpretation, we can reduce min days off by one for almost every pilot and still be in compliance with the contract! Don't want those pesky pilots getting free days off now, do we?
Then, since most release times occur at or before 8PM, that's another quarter day off per trip/reserve period. So we can reduce days off by 2 for most pilots. In fact, let's take every hour prior to report on day one, and every hour after release on the last day, and add up those total hours then divide that by 24 and that is the amount of extra work days we owe the company.
You still serious about this Shirley?
Perhaps there is room in there to find bargaining credits to apply to more deserving local pilots though. I'd actually almost second that resolution just to see it play out.
Since your active contempt for commuters is clouding your creative math in counting days off, let's just go nuts with it, shall we:
We have very, very few reports at 1am. Or 2am. Or 3 am. Or 4am. So the vast majority of reserves and line holders always start off with a quarter day off almost every day. With 4 blocks of work per month, that's an extra day off! I wonder if the company knows this? If we agree with this interpretation, we can reduce min days off by one for almost every pilot and still be in compliance with the contract! Don't want those pesky pilots getting free days off now, do we?
Then, since most release times occur at or before 8PM, that's another quarter day off per trip/reserve period. So we can reduce days off by 2 for most pilots. In fact, let's take every hour prior to report on day one, and every hour after release on the last day, and add up those total hours then divide that by 24 and that is the amount of extra work days we owe the company.
You still serious about this Shirley?
05-20-2014, 02:32 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,716
At the mentioned price what's the break even in years of operation on fuel costs ? That's about an 80% saving on the cost of a large WB. That buys an awful lot of gas. I could see these as a bridge WB for lift now until RFP acft show up in force. RA made money operating the DC9 long past any other carrier. Paid for aircraft give you a lot of flexibility.
05-20-2014, 02:34 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: LAX ERA
Posts: 3,457
05-20-2014, 02:40 PM
New Hire
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: B-737-800
Posts: 9
I am struggling to see the problem. I know that greenslips are pay no credit. Are greenslips evil in that they distort our productivity numbers? You are a valued contributor to this forum so I thank you for your postings. Would you consider posting an example with numbers that would illuminate further your concerns?
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