Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
05-20-2014, 05:40 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Ahhh, yes.. The staffing formula, the one that forced the Company to publish the "mini-emergency AE" a couple months ago for 35 A320 CA's. Then the Company had to convert and park a solid number of those awards because DAL would have violated said formula otherwise..
Those new CA's with 3 week to 2 month long vacations pretty much LOVE that PWA provision now!!
(But yes, the staffing formula is on the very bottom edge of what it takes to truly staff the airline, hence the need to keep improving it!)
Those new CA's with 3 week to 2 month long vacations pretty much LOVE that PWA provision now!!
(But yes, the staffing formula is on the very bottom edge of what it takes to truly staff the airline, hence the need to keep improving it!)
05-20-2014, 05:42 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,599
05-20-2014, 05:45 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 243
How about this scenario under the FAR 117 rules?
Pilot signs in at 1957 for a ATL-PHX-ATL turn, landing back here at 0627. These flights are currently in our Delta timetable:
DL 1915 departs ATL 2057 arrives PHX 2200 (3+57 block)
DL 1646 departs PHX 2355 arrives ATL 0627 (3+32 block)
Total FDP = 10+30
Total block = 7+29
Legal under the old PWA? No - The 12. D. 1. table would limit duty day to approximately 9:30.
Legal under FAR 117? It seems so.
The good news is it would pay 10:30. The bad news is that seems like a killer trip to me, unless you can really reverse your body clock somehow. I suspect there are many more city pairs that could end up doing this, without calling them SDPs.
Am I missing something?
Pilot signs in at 1957 for a ATL-PHX-ATL turn, landing back here at 0627. These flights are currently in our Delta timetable:
DL 1915 departs ATL 2057 arrives PHX 2200 (3+57 block)
DL 1646 departs PHX 2355 arrives ATL 0627 (3+32 block)
Total FDP = 10+30
Total block = 7+29
Legal under the old PWA? No - The 12. D. 1. table would limit duty day to approximately 9:30.
Legal under FAR 117? It seems so.
The good news is it would pay 10:30. The bad news is that seems like a killer trip to me, unless you can really reverse your body clock somehow. I suspect there are many more city pairs that could end up doing this, without calling them SDPs.
Am I missing something?
The mysterious item in the Chairman's Letter "Adopts FAR FDP limits for actual operations" could be very bad for us.
The 12.D.1 table is the reason we don't have CDOs right now. If we change that without some serious limitations we will have a lot more trips like the above. As a RES pilot I have done a CDO here at Delta but it complied with the 12.D.1 table. It wasn't fun but it was legal. It also wasn't practical for the company since the PWA duty limit had us duty in at 0300 to comply with the duty limit.
I've said it twice before, CDOs and SDP are two separate things and with the changes to our contract being discussed BOTH would be possible.
It's one thing to have a 6 hour break between flights it's entirely another to just fly a 12 hour FDP turn, with no beak, in the middle of the night.
05-20-2014, 05:53 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,235
Maybe it's restricted, but 9E is currently flying plenty of CDOs which depart between 9pm and 10pm. I know because I regularly commute on them. BTW, the vast majority of crews I talk to when stuck in the JS hate them. I honestly didn't get too deep in the conversation because I never thought we'd see them here.
05-20-2014, 06:17 AM
Works Every Weekend
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: 737 ATL
Posts: 3,506
Maybe we can fly all these CDOs out of Memphis and Louisville.
Carry boxes instead of pax.
Is there any money in that?
Carry boxes instead of pax.
Is there any money in that?
05-20-2014, 06:19 AM
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Captain, SS Orca
Posts: 96
Picked up one of these the other night. 1 leg to layover, DH back the next day. Sign-in 2153 depart 2253. Paid 9:00. So I'm guessing that it made it just under the cutoff of 2200 and that it's based on sign-in, not departure.
05-20-2014, 06:29 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Sky Club.
Anybody else a little ticked off about the new guest policy at SkyClub?
05-20-2014, 06:50 AM
Straight QOL, homie
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
Posts: 4,202
Will all these questions a about what is and is not legal be openly addressed by Dalpa?
Or will it be one-sided cherry picking with only best-case scenarios?
And when do we get to see the TA??
To a much greater extent than the rushed, inadequate C12...this TA seems, for lack of a better term... off.
Or will it be one-sided cherry picking with only best-case scenarios?
And when do we get to see the TA??
To a much greater extent than the rushed, inadequate C12...this TA seems, for lack of a better term... off.
Last edited by Purple Drank; 05-20-2014 at 07:10 AM.
05-20-2014, 06:56 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,947
How about this scenario under the FAR 117 rules?
Pilot signs in at 1957 for a ATL-PHX-ATL turn, landing back here at 0627. These flights are currently in our Delta timetable:
DL 1915 departs ATL 2057 arrives PHX 2200 (3+57 block)
DL 1646 departs PHX 2355 arrives ATL 0627 (3+32 block)
Total FDP = 10+30
Total block = 7+29
Legal under the old PWA? No - The 12. D. 1. table would limit duty day to approximately 9:30.
Legal under FAR 117? It seems so.
The good news is it would pay 10:30. The bad news is that seems like a killer trip to me, unless you can really reverse your body clock somehow. I suspect there are many more city pairs that could end up doing this, without calling them SDPs.
Am I missing something?
Pilot signs in at 1957 for a ATL-PHX-ATL turn, landing back here at 0627. These flights are currently in our Delta timetable:
DL 1915 departs ATL 2057 arrives PHX 2200 (3+57 block)
DL 1646 departs PHX 2355 arrives ATL 0627 (3+32 block)
Total FDP = 10+30
Total block = 7+29
Legal under the old PWA? No - The 12. D. 1. table would limit duty day to approximately 9:30.
Legal under FAR 117? It seems so.
The good news is it would pay 10:30. The bad news is that seems like a killer trip to me, unless you can really reverse your body clock somehow. I suspect there are many more city pairs that could end up doing this, without calling them SDPs.
Am I missing something?
Missing something? Yeah, I think you're missing where you call in fatigued in PHX.
05-20-2014, 07:01 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Position: retired 767(dl)
Posts: 5,740
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