Ed Harley

Agreed. The comments are maddening. It's a reminder of what the general public thinks about pilots, i.e., overpaid / under worked. Below is just one of the comments:

"Don't pilots only work a few days a month? I assumed they only get paid for the time they work not for the days off. My next door neighbor was a commercial pilot and he worked about 10 days a month. He had hour restrictions he could work, I on the other hand have been required to work 54 hours straight at times."

EdGrimley

Instead of using the fascinating "possibilities" to sell this TA, lets get specific and spell out the routes that need turns to operate. Then see if this pilot group wants to allow just those routes via memrat instead of opening a lot of other unforeseen possibilities which reduces staffing needs and cause more stagnation please.

If management wants even more later (assuming the first ones get passed by memrat), they come back to us and ask nicely. This type of scenario prevents things from quickly getting out of hand while keeping some potential leverage in our pockets.

Dorfman

No it's not but within a year commuting to reserve will be for most. Only new hires will be forced to commute to reserve.

I am all for issues for commuters, i.e. making trips more commutable on both ends but a 10 versus 12 start is not an issue for me. Before you start your tirade that I don't care I will be a commuter in the next year or so and I have been in the past.

Razorback one

What If there was 6 hours between flights, but they only published 3 hours of "rest"? Like get in at 11pm, depart at 5am. The rotation shows 3 hours rest. So, you are notified of your rest that can't be below published (3 hours).
If everything goes right, you get 6. IROPS, you can go to 3 hours.

Look, I have done more split duty trips than I can count. WE DO NOT WANT THESE KIND OF TRIPS. They are terrible. We fly for the big boys. Naps are for other airlines, not DAL.

R1

sailingfun

Virtually any city pair can be flown as a turn. It however does not take a rocket scientist to realize the costs involved to the company.

sailingfun

There were a lot of concessions in the last contract. The gains however were far greater.

TOGA LK

Are my eyes blurry? Many years have passed and I finally agree with Sailingfun. Do you agree that if the company wants something then there is an angle they are working?

My concerns stem from seeing our SE and NW short haul flying turn into CDO extravaganzas on Friday and Saturday nights. What exactly are the gains in this contract? Maybe a CDO should not be exempted from 5:15 ADG?

I am undecided on the proposal and today my rep said he is pushing for MEMRAT. Decisions, decisions.

And while I am at it why can't we get an EFB on the flight deck? BK AA had them what, two years ago?

EdGrimley

You just repeated your talking point but it had little to do with my suggestion which I think is a good, measured approach to what management is asking for.

sailingfun

Finally got the chance to talk in detail with someone who has read and digested the TA. Cost wise it's heavily weighted in our favor. The 5:15 is very expensive and has many implications I did not consider.
To answer the reserve question there will no longer be a requirement to acknowledge a trip however a reserve will be required to notify the company by 3 hours prior to report if for some reason he is unable to fly the trip. It's a 10 hour leash effectively.
They looked at the augmented turns and see very few if any flights where it makes economic sense other then a market with unsafe layover conditions with one exception. It may be useful to the company on some military charters.
CDO's have many restrictions and you can not be rerouted into them. There is a pay no credit component to the CDO's. More at the end of the post on that.
The 14 hour rule on having to cover trips via normal coverage is significant and based on historical data will cause a significant reduction in reroutes.
Overall the TA will increase staffing requirements. That means the 5:15 will require some phase in. The company has increased hiring however initially the 5:15 will be calculated based on the old rules for credit. The difference will be paid as pay only for a few months until programming and staffing changes are done. It will then become pay and credit.
Bunks for the 330 guys, no soup for you to the ER guys.
Change to FAR's for duty times gives the company 30 additional minutes depending on situation.
First class seats for the NRT guys on longer DH's. Think he said 5 hours.
Memory rat undecided. My gut feel is it will not go to memory rat. If not I suggested at a minimum there should be a week from the time the pilots get the language to a vote so feedback can go to the reps from the pilots.
Overall I can live with everything except the pay no credit on the CDO's. It will average 1.5 hours per CDO so not huge on this TA however I can see it having major implications on future contracts or possible mediation/arbitration. If it goes to memory rat. I will vote no for this issue.

sailingfun

The union looked extensively at how the company might use that. See my post
above.