gloopy

Of course, which is a sizeable majority of the pilot group that is effected. Affected? This will have a significant impact on reserves. Most pilots are commuters, and for many commutes there is a huge difference between 10AM and noon on day one.

If you commute (by air or a long drive) it is a huge QOL deal.

Because we had agreed to that for quite some time. I always despised it. But then came 117 and instantly it was noon with no action on our part. So we crafted a concession to allow the earliest FAR legal report coming after a day off. I'm shocked and appalled we did that, and I can't see how you or anyone is OK with that.

Sucked for everything? No. For this issue, yes. How sad it is indeed that reserves got some "good old days" for a few months as a result of new FAR's and a company memo, and we had to negotiate relief for the company to reduce it to bare bones FAR legal. Again, I can not believe you are OK with that.

Day one reserve report time applies to every single reserve on every block of days in every category 100% of the time. For many pilots with challenging commutes, that could make the difference between a night at home versus commuting up on a "golden day" off just to be in position for something even if they don't end up getting an assignment. Most rotations won't benefit from the new ADG. This was costed by the company, obviously, and I think you are over stating its significance. Yes it is a positive, but its not worth what we gave up for it. You also have to include the MASSIVE concession of a 3 hour call back leash. That is absulutely huge and revolutionary for the company and disruptive for reserve QOL. In many cases responsibile commuters will have to cummute in dramatically early if they have a theoretical blackout period in excess of 3 hours. Let alone if they want to turn the phone off and get some sleep, which they can't anymore. Gotta get to that bat phone in under 3 hours now, no matter what.

That is not "less than nothing" and it IS a positive. But it is NOT worth the significant concessions we gave up to get it. Most reserves will not benefit from that most of the time because for most trips its not an issue and even when it is, if you don't break guarantee it never triggers anyway. I am in favor of the change, but not the price we paid for it. Losing 2 hours every start of every reserve period and being on a 3 hour call back leash is not worth the occasional month where the trip difference throws some time onto your card.

There are plenty of things I'm reserving judgement for. Like CDO's for example, which I'm not categorically against. I do think that needed to be a completely separate side letter/TA (subject to MEMRAT) though. I'm very concerned with the "fly to the FAR's" portion we apparently agreed to. But the gains we know we're getting don't seem even remotely close to the losses we know we're giving up. Based on what I've seen so far, I'd prefer current book. And that includes taking our chances with the grievance process. Day one at noon was already established no matter what, and I see zero risk in any arbitrator forcing a 2 hour call back leash. If we turn this down we still have leverage and, sadly, greater QOL than if we aproove it.


I'll look the whole thing over, assuming we get to, and vote on it, assuming we get to, and if not provide direction to my rep. But based on what I've seen it looks like we got rolled big time.

Check Essential

gloopy-
You are one of the calm and rational voices around here.
I respect your analysis.
I gotta tell you. I'm coming to the same conclusion as you.

I've been trying to approach this on a sort of "pro/con" type thought process.

I see quite a few cons but I'm having trouble listing pros.

I don't know why we would agree to this thing.

nwaf16dude

If what you say is true (and I'm not arguing that it isn't) then what is your best guess as to why augmented domestic ops is in this TA?

Scoop

0500 AM was and is contractual. NLT noon was by memo. If the new rules go into affect than 1000 becomes contractual.

This just highlights the perils of operating "by memo." What the memo giveth, the memo can taketh away.

Noon would have been great but 1000 on the first day is still pretty good.

Remember the NLT than noon was tied to a 2 hour long call response which many reserve Pilots were rightfully outraged about.

Lets see the details, read them calmly, study them.............................................. .............and then burn the house down!

Scoop

Purple Drank

If there is no effort by the MEC to highlight the risks as well as the benefits of the TA...what else would you call it?

Dash8widget

I get that - but on a transcon augmented turn, the landing pilot on the first landing has to have 2 hours rest in the second half of the FDP as well. So the same pilot does both landings?

sailingfun

As I posted there are some limited situations where it might make sense in the Central America/Carib or NRT market. Many of our competitors did Carib turns augmented in markets they only flew a few days a week. We double crewed those because our contract required it. It's still not likely we will see much of that because the contract requires a rest seat. You're not going to see Delta deploy lie flats into low yield vacation markets on a regular basis. Other airlines prior to 117 allowed a cabin seat most even in coach. 117 may have changed the seat requirements but not sure.
The devil is always in the details. If the TA allows a standard cabin seat you might see some in Carib. If not then it just is not going to happen. I suspect we will see the TA by Wednesday.
Edit: talked with a friend much smarter then me. There are a few markets in Central America we might be interested in flying into where the company does not feel they can layover crews. There are also a few markets we could be losing because of declining layover safety. This could be a solution to serve those markets.

Purple Drank

agree..but that 0500 on Day 1 had to be on your line prior to 1500...and the schedule check was mandatory.

Alan Shore

Given the fact that the current 5:15 DPA does not apply to reserves, I'd say a 5:15 ADG will be a big deal to them by getting them into the next RAW bucket or totally full that much sooner and by having GS/IA trips worth that much more.

Shouldn't we wait for the details on this before we make such an assumption? I fully agree that a 3-hour call back leash would be totally unacceptable -- so much so, in fact, that I have a hard time believing that our reps would have agreed to it.

The jury is very much out on that one.

Dorfman

The check wasn't mandatory until 0200, 3 hours prior to report/start of duty period.