tsquare

I think what I described is perfectly legal.... under a CDO umbrella. Under split ops, it is not. I have no problem with the split ops moniker because 117 is clear. 6 hours rest is inviolable. Reduce it, and it becomes a CDO however. The devil in the details here will be how these trips are defined. If the contract amendment defines these as split ops, than we have no problem, and I can live with it because I will be getting 6 hours behind a hotel door... If they are CDOs it is a huge concession.

Part 2: That is fine if you are doing 1 leg. But we are talking about 2 legs in this scenario. It will be rest, but it won't be quality rest that is for sure. Show me the science on this.

Check Essential

t-
I think you are getting the definitions and the legalities mixed up here.
There is only one FAR that controls these types of operations.

I don't know how we got started using the "CDO" terminology here on the forum but the feds call it "Split Duty".

There is no "CDO" under the FARs. No "lean-over" or "stand-up" or "illegal".
Under the regulation it is "Split Duty". All those other terms are just slang or jargon that mean the same thing.

The FAR only requires 3 hours behind the door. Our contract is going to make that 6. If it is scheduled for 6 then the FAR prohibits that from being reduced. If the outbound flight is late then the pilots will still be required to get 6 hours. It cannot be reduced. (117.15.d)

Here's the split duty FAR 117.15:

14 CFR 117.15 - Flight duty period: Split duty. | LII / Legal Information Institute

Here's the full FAR 117:

14 CFR Part 117 - FLIGHT AND DUTY LIMITATIONS AND REST REQUIREMENTS: FLIGHTCREW MEMBERS (EFF. 1-4-14) | LII / Legal Information Institute

There is still some ambiguity about this though until DALPA shows us the actual language.
Is that 6 hours behind the door or is it release to report? We don't know yet.

tsquare

I defer to your knowledge on this. I am extremely wary of loopholes however. Lawyers are wordsmiths, and lawyers wrote this.

I feel like Wyle E Coyote

forgot to bid

disregard missed a page

CGfalconHerc

I can't believe we're even talking about CDO's, "stand-ups" or Split-duty in this bargaining environment. Replacing 30 hr layovers in GEG, CLT, RNO, PDX, AUS, SAT with red-eye CDO's for a couple more bucks? Wasn't the 10 hr rest with 8 behind the door in FAR 117 intended to prevent this exact scenario? I don't know about you guys but next time you see a FDX or UPS zombie stumbling around Starbucks ask them how they like CDO's with 4 hrs in the recliner..cause that's what we're talking about. Look at typical west coast CDO out of SLC to OAK; arrive at 2230; put the plane to bed, catch the hotel van for the 40 min ride, check in and get to your room at 2330, 0400 wake-up for a 0430 pickup and 0610 departure..no thanks..I had plenty of 4 hr nights on the ship. The FA's do it all the time, but they're not driving. If this scenario is indeed what the company is looking for, CDO's will replace almost every long domestic layover. It won't matter if you think they'll go senior, cause that's all that will be available..that and the nice "augmented" SLC-EWR transcon turn. Please contact your reps and ask them for clarification on this proposed language. If CDO's are in the cards..I hope you urge them to vote NO!

Bucking Bar

Good point. I believe the answer is scheduled at 6, reduced to 3 for IROPS.

Check Essential

I don't think they can do that. There's no exception in the FAR for IROPS.

(d) The rest opportunity that the flightcrew member is actually provided may not be less than the rest opportunity that was scheduled.

My question is what the contractual 6 refers to.
Is that 6 behind the door or 6 from block-in to block-out or what ?
I guess we'll find out Wednesday.

flyallnite

If you read the FAR, they are two different animals. A 'sleep opportunity' applies to normal layovers. A 'mid duty rest opportunity' is treated differently.

capncrunch

If you had to guess, how do you think the company interprets that?

Here is another problem, now that ALPA has given that HUGE concession away, it will get ever worse on Concession 2015.

nwaf16dude

Quick question...I'm have a partial payback day that ends around 6 tomorrow am. What's the earliest I can be assigned a trip? I'd guess its 1800, but who knows these days?