Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
05-18-2014, 01:09 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,299
You're being a bit overdramatic waiving your "how dare you question my integrity" flag about all of this. You may be the one guy out there that's never flown sick or tired. Good for you. I think most of us have done both at one time or another, sometimes at the same time.
You are completely mischaracterizing 88Driver's statements. His point, if I understand it correctly, is that when you have rules in place (like CDOs) that are inherently unsafe, it places pilots in a very bad place.
You are completely mischaracterizing 88Driver's statements. His point, if I understand it correctly, is that when you have rules in place (like CDOs) that are inherently unsafe, it places pilots in a very bad place.
Where does it end?
05-18-2014, 01:13 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,299
Anyone who's read any of my posts should know by now how eager I am to learn everything there is to know about any changes to our work rules. And to the extent that there is a decision to be made by me and my fellow pilots, or by my reps, I want those decisions to be based on factual information and nothing else, including spin.
I assume we're both on the same page there?
05-18-2014, 01:17 PM
Wind the clock beoch
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 437
Help me out here. If men are from Mars, women from Venus, who is from Jupiter? 
Absolutely. Cheers.
Anyone who's read any of my posts should know by now how eager I am to learn everything there is to know about any changes to our work rules. And to the extent that there is a decision to be made by me and my fellow pilots, or by my reps, I want those decisions to be based on factual information and nothing else, including spin.
I assume we're both on the same page there?
I assume we're both on the same page there?
05-18-2014, 01:22 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,299
05-18-2014, 01:47 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
You're correct.
The COD is a distinct trip. They can not be inserted mid rotation. (question already asked & answered)
We need to verify what happens during a delay on a COD overnight. Summer storms, short legs resulting in flow delays in and out of hubs and other common sources of IROP effecting these type of operations have to be considered.
Also, these are the last flights in, first flights out, which typically have the highest percentages of weather related issues and diverts.
Fortunately we do have a number of Reps who have experience with these at other airlines. Their experiences help craft a better product.
The COD is a distinct trip. They can not be inserted mid rotation. (question already asked & answered)
We need to verify what happens during a delay on a COD overnight. Summer storms, short legs resulting in flow delays in and out of hubs and other common sources of IROP effecting these type of operations have to be considered.
Also, these are the last flights in, first flights out, which typically have the highest percentages of weather related issues and diverts.
Fortunately we do have a number of Reps who have experience with these at other airlines. Their experiences help craft a better product.
I would sleep in the airplane too.
05-18-2014, 01:55 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: 737n/FO
Posts: 667
Clamp,
I already did. And I also don't like the idea of CDOs and am also having trouble with some of the "anti-CDO" logic being presented.
So CDOs are bad because the Pilots who bid them are all staying up all day to get extra time at home and are showing up not properly rested????
First off we don't fly them yet so any posting about who will fly them and for what reason is highly speculative.
Secondly, that is also a pretty broad brush and pretty cynical. I don't want CDOs because I think they are a step backwards, but I am not willing to claim a whole bunch of my fellow Pilots will show up not rested. Sadly I think a few Pilots may push it, but don't you think those same guys are probably pushing it now?
As I have said 90% or more of the LAX redeyes are on the first leg of our trips. I normally avoid them but when I do fly them I try my best to show up well rested and believe my fellow pilots would do the same.
For the record - I am still against CDOs.
Scoop
I already did. And I also don't like the idea of CDOs and am also having trouble with some of the "anti-CDO" logic being presented.
So CDOs are bad because the Pilots who bid them are all staying up all day to get extra time at home and are showing up not properly rested????
First off we don't fly them yet so any posting about who will fly them and for what reason is highly speculative.
Secondly, that is also a pretty broad brush and pretty cynical. I don't want CDOs because I think they are a step backwards, but I am not willing to claim a whole bunch of my fellow Pilots will show up not rested. Sadly I think a few Pilots may push it, but don't you think those same guys are probably pushing it now?
As I have said 90% or more of the LAX redeyes are on the first leg of our trips. I normally avoid them but when I do fly them I try my best to show up well rested and believe my fellow pilots would do the same.
For the record - I am still against CDOs.
Scoop
05-18-2014, 01:55 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Stay THIRSTY, my friends!
Posts: 1,898
If it's anything like I experienced last summer in the midst of two months of tsra activity is that if you get there too late (for instance ORF at 130am) and the FAs are doing the 6am out, they just slept in the airplane. Don't blame them really, what's the point? Save yourself 50 min of round trip driving, 10 min of checking in, TSA and that's if the hotel and van have their act together.
I would sleep in the airplane too.
I would sleep in the airplane too.
The six hour scheduled behind the door could be a rarity in that case. We really need to see the language and decide if there are enough protections to keep the operation realistic and safe.
05-18-2014, 01:59 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
3 > 4? Do you get easily duped? Have you helped out a Nigerian prince by responding to his email and mailing a blank check?
Then why is it in there? "We don't think they would do that" Barf.
Last flight out ATL-LAX, 2 pilots, 2 hotels once they get there. etc. Red Eye back, 2 pilots, 2 hotels from previous night.
Instead, augmented crew doing the same, 3 pilots, no hotels. Am I missing something?
13 hour flight time limit, 13 hour duty day.
It's there for a reason. But I think you already know that.
Last flight out ATL-LAX, 2 pilots, 2 hotels once they get there. etc. Red Eye back, 2 pilots, 2 hotels from previous night.
Instead, augmented crew doing the same, 3 pilots, no hotels. Am I missing something?
13 hour flight time limit, 13 hour duty day.
It's there for a reason. But I think you already know that.
Last edited by forgot to bid; 05-18-2014 at 02:13 PM.
05-18-2014, 02:06 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
Does anyone have any thoughts on whether theses CDO's will create a need for more pilots, less pilots, or will it be net neutral?
05-18-2014, 02:08 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: 737n/FO
Posts: 667
Absolutely nothing. I would always choose a 21-hour 4-day with a 30-hour layover over a CDO. The issue are the many 18-hour 4-days and 14-hour 3-days, all with the 30-hour layovers. ADG will add some credit time to those, as will turning the layover into a CDO (if the max 4 hours block and min 7:30 pay are both true).
Either way, the Company will pay extra for such a situation and will work their hardest to avoid either solution. Most likely, we'll see longer and less commutable trips as a result of these changes, as opposed to a plethora of CDOs.
And no more 2230 reports in LAX!!
Either way, the Company will pay extra for such a situation and will work their hardest to avoid either solution. Most likely, we'll see longer and less commutable trips as a result of these changes, as opposed to a plethora of CDOs.
And no more 2230 reports in LAX!!
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