Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
05-17-2014, 07:05 PM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
EVERY other carrier has done that for years. Only DAL has ever had it with a four-man requirement as far as I know (I might be wrong). Further, what's better--getting your break in first class, or a middle seat in coach? My understanding is that if we do it with three guys that we will get a first class seat every time. All three guys get a fairly small break of 1-1.5 hours on each leg as opposed to dh'ing all the way one way or the other. As it is, DH for 4.5 hours in a middle seat in coach, THEN flying back isn't my idea of a good time. (In fact I specifically AVOID front end dh on any turnaround in my PBS preferences for this very reason).
I'm not saying that if we go to this that it is "better"--but just pointing out that depending on the loads and the fact that we were never guaranteed a FC seat, that the current way ain't exactly peachy all the time.
I'm not saying that if we go to this that it is "better"--but just pointing out that depending on the loads and the fact that we were never guaranteed a FC seat, that the current way ain't exactly peachy all the time.
05-17-2014, 07:10 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,016
Agree. You fix the problem by requiring a first class seat for all deadheads. Believe it or not, United once had this. We fix the problem by requiring less manning.
05-17-2014, 07:11 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Left seat of a little plane
Posts: 2,431
"This week's crisis is next week's footnote." I've been around for awhile, and most agreements eventually reach between us and the company usually end up fairly positive, with some exceptions (C96, BK LOA 46, which was necessary, and post-BK LOA 51 which was not). ALL TAs that I have ever seen have been accompanied by the almost guaranteed complaints and gnashing of teeth.
Meanwhile we have better pay and work rules than any other legacy carrier, and are trying to do even better. DALPA must have done something right in the past few years, though you would never know it reading some guys.
I'm at least "troubled" by the CDOs. I DO think this should go to memrat just due to the scope of the agreement. I just don't want to burn the place down until I have heard far more details.
05-17-2014, 07:16 PM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
I agree herk that due to the scope of this agreement that memrat should be required. It's a major change.
And also agreed that the most troubling part about it is the CDO inclusion. What they really need to do is release the language of the LOA to the masses. Every snippet that is released that is incomplete creates 15 more questions.
And also agreed that the most troubling part about it is the CDO inclusion. What they really need to do is release the language of the LOA to the masses. Every snippet that is released that is incomplete creates 15 more questions.
05-17-2014, 07:17 PM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
No I am not. But I have always been amused by the guys obsessed over job numbers. We have min staffing numbers in the contract anyway, and since premium pay flying is actually a factor that triggers the staffing requirements (i.e. the more GS, the more pilots required, which will eventually lessen the numbers of GS, so it all balances out in the very long run). But where does it end? Why don't we augment for > 7 hours of flying, or > 6? Why don't we go back to a hard cap, and make it 60 hours, and call anyone flying 61 a wannabe scab?
"This week's crisis is next week's footnote." I've been around for awhile, and most agreements eventually reach between us and the company usually end up fairly positive, with some exceptions (C96, BK LOA 46, which was necessary, and post-BK LOA 51 which was not). ALL TAs that I have ever seen have been accompanied by the almost guaranteed complaints and gnashing of teeth.
Meanwhile we have better pay and work rules than any other legacy carrier, and are trying to do even better. DALPA must have done something right in the past few years, though you would never know it reading some guys.
I'm at least "troubled" by the CDOs. I DO think this should go to memrat just due to the scope of the agreement. I just don't want to burn the place down until I have heard far more details.
"This week's crisis is next week's footnote." I've been around for awhile, and most agreements eventually reach between us and the company usually end up fairly positive, with some exceptions (C96, BK LOA 46, which was necessary, and post-BK LOA 51 which was not). ALL TAs that I have ever seen have been accompanied by the almost guaranteed complaints and gnashing of teeth.
Meanwhile we have better pay and work rules than any other legacy carrier, and are trying to do even better. DALPA must have done something right in the past few years, though you would never know it reading some guys.
I'm at least "troubled" by the CDOs. I DO think this should go to memrat just due to the scope of the agreement. I just don't want to burn the place down until I have heard far more details.
I agree with what I bolded.
I had high hopes for Donatelli. I'm trying to be in his corner, but on the surface, I'm not seeing too much WIN in this. It shouldn't be a case of hoping for memrat here. This is a must.
05-17-2014, 07:21 PM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
My initial understanding of it is that it is basically going back to laid back long call the we had it before 117 with an additional hour. I've tried several different ways to find a negative in it and haven't been successful.
05-17-2014, 07:21 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Starboard Side, weekends & holidays.
Posts: 856
05-17-2014, 07:22 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: Retired, again...
Posts: 608
Segue: So I went to see "Million Dollar Arm" tonight in Newnan, Ga. Much to my surprise there was a full screen ad/promotion for the DPA that ran for the entire audience just before the feature.
Regardless of my overall feelings, this was a bit unseemly to me, and felt like airing dirty laundry in the wrong forum for Delta Air Lines pilots......am I way off base here ?
Regards,
BG
Regardless of my overall feelings, this was a bit unseemly to me, and felt like airing dirty laundry in the wrong forum for Delta Air Lines pilots......am I way off base here ?
Regards,
BG
05-17-2014, 07:24 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: M88 B
Posts: 399
Herkflyer
We have better work rules than United? Interesting did you forget that each time they go over max duty day they get 2 hours extra pay. Uniform reimbursement, dry cleaning, etc. They have many things we don't, take off the blinders before you make such blanket statements. We have almost No soft money in our contract compared to United and others.
We have better work rules than United? Interesting did you forget that each time they go over max duty day they get 2 hours extra pay. Uniform reimbursement, dry cleaning, etc. They have many things we don't, take off the blinders before you make such blanket statements. We have almost No soft money in our contract compared to United and others.
05-17-2014, 07:28 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 302
This is basically what I thought it would be, minus the CDO's. However I am not against the CDO's... but I don't think people should be forced in to them. In other words, make them lucrative enough where they go senior.
The 5:15 is nice, but if they get CDO's the 30 hour layovers will go down a lot... so the 5:15 vs 4:30 currently won't really come in to play.
The equal pay for reserves is nice and long over due. It matters on green slips.
Pretty disappointing they only got a 13 hour long call leash I was thinking more like 14-15. Guys that commute to reserve will still have a small window where it will be tough. With 14-15 hours commuters stuck on reserve had a little less stress.
The 5:15 is nice, but if they get CDO's the 30 hour layovers will go down a lot... so the 5:15 vs 4:30 currently won't really come in to play.
The equal pay for reserves is nice and long over due. It matters on green slips.
Pretty disappointing they only got a 13 hour long call leash I was thinking more like 14-15. Guys that commute to reserve will still have a small window where it will be tough. With 14-15 hours commuters stuck on reserve had a little less stress.
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