I am surprised no one has locked on to the possibility of the Augmented crews with non ocean crossings. To me that is a huge give back. We can now do with 3 what we needed 4 to do previously. And imagine a CDO augmented, eek. Fly NY-San short sleep, fly back, three pilots.

"we don't think they will do that"

There is a reason they want to do this.

05-17-2014, 06:37 PM

#157072

Purple Drank

Straight QOL, homie

Joined APC: Feb 2012

Position: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator

Posts: 4,202

Did we just get our asses handed to us again?

05-17-2014, 06:37 PM

#157073

Alan Shore

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Oct 2013

Posts: 1,299

Quote:

Originally Posted by PilotFrog

You're right about the dinner and a movie turns. They can now already schedule those up to nine hours with two pilots. Being able to augment them means scheduling over nine hours with three pilots.

That said, FAR 117 provides that split duty periods are only allowed with unaugmented crews.

05-17-2014, 06:42 PM

#157074

scambo1

The Brown Dot +1

Joined APC: Jun 2009

Position: 777B

Posts: 7,775

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vikz09

The way I see it, we waited all our careers for the ability to have 10 hours behind door and once again the company needs a out. We trip over our d***** to rush them a way to work around these 10 hour behind door rules. We even go so far as to provide concessions to short call start times.....for what? I don't really see the big gain for this pilot group. We hold the chips, the company either step up dramatically or see u in section 6.

The way this union does everything to help the company out at every turn. The result will be they will have no more wants after this. What is their incentive to get a contract done in 2015. They can stall for years under the RLA. What's the urgency to wrap up those negotiations they will have already gotten what they needed with LOA's.

I guess I am a risk taker I say status quo until the company steps up. So far I see nothing exciting.

Status quo works for me.

Is the mob willing to take bets on whether we get memrat?

My bet is no way for all the wrong reasons.

05-17-2014, 06:44 PM

#157075

Vikz09

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Feb 2007

Position: M88 B

Posts: 399

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeypilot44

If I get to vote, I'm a no vote. I'm okay with status quo.

I hope your right. Unfortunately, I see a union that talks a good game, sticking together showing management we are solidified, etc. When it comes down to they do not have the guts to spend dues money on long drawn out negotiations.

DPA would have been dead long ago if it wasn't for Dalpa and our constant give backs during record profits. I really am trying to find 3 of the bullet points that seem like a gain. Then the insanity of allowing CDO's that should be worth a hundred million a year in productivity gains for mgmt. Of course as a safety organization this should not even revoke a response other than NOT interested! !

05-17-2014, 06:45 PM

#157076

hockeypilot44

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Jul 2008

Posts: 5,016

These rules look just like NWA's prior to the merger. Expect 3 pilots to fly down to caribbean and back from MSP and DTW.

05-17-2014, 06:46 PM

#157077

Alan Shore

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Oct 2013

Posts: 1,299

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsquare

So they don't have to pay us an extra day for those 0130 arrivals. Nothing different there than what we already have.

The difference I see is that it's gone up from 4:30 to 5:15, and that reports after 2200 count.

05-17-2014, 06:51 PM

#157078

Herkflyr

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Jul 2007

Position: Left seat of a little plane

Posts: 2,431

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purple Drank

Did we just get our asses handed to us again?

No...but I am guessing that is what RA might be asking SD next week. I know that you don't want to believe that.

05-17-2014, 06:54 PM

#157079

Vikz09

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Feb 2007

Position: M88 B

Posts: 399

Quote:

Originally Posted by scambo1

Status quo works for me.

Is the mob willing to take bets on whether we get memrat?

My bet is no way for all the wrong reasons.

Look at the history of this Union. Memrat, I doubt it. All that talk of coming together and showing strong resolve for 2015 is lip smack. Alpa national will be devastated if we spent 7 months of negotiating money only to chance those results to the the line pilots. ... we are to emotional to chance a 7 months worth of negotiating capital on. I HOPE I AM WRONG.

Status quo until we see some serious contract improvements. Nothing that includes a carve out. What happened to the chairman who wrote letters about the need for advancing this pilots contract gains while we are in the mist of unprecedented airline profits?

05-17-2014, 06:54 PM

#157080

Herkflyr

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Jul 2007

Position: Left seat of a little plane

Posts: 2,431

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big E 757

I was wondering about that too, a Caribbean turn from ATL that used to be called "dinner and a movie" because they'd deadhead a crew one way or the other, over 9 hours now and they can do a turn with 3 people. So far I am underwhelmed.

EVERY other carrier has done that for years. Only DAL has ever had it with a four-man requirement as far as I know (I might be wrong). Further, what's better--getting your break in first class, or a middle seat in coach? My understanding is that if we do it with three guys that we will get a first class seat every time. All three guys get a fairly small break of 1-1.5 hours on each leg as opposed to dh'ing all the way one way or the other. As it is, DH for 4.5 hours in a middle seat in coach, THEN flying back isn't my idea of a good time. (In fact I specifically AVOID front end dh on any turnaround in my PBS preferences for this very reason).

I'm not saying that if we go to this that it is "better"--but just pointing out that depending on the loads and the fact that we were never guaranteed a FC seat, that the current way ain't exactly peachy all the time.