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Old 05-17-2014, 01:54 PM
  #157001  
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Originally Posted by GogglesPisano
"SCHEDULE WITH SAFETY"*




* except for stand-ups. Because 10 hours of rest should be an absolute minimum, unless it shouldn't be, because some guys want to be "productive."

This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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Old 05-17-2014, 01:57 PM
  #157002  
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Originally Posted by Purple Drank
What is the LC response leash??? 3 hours? Unsat
Good question. I would agree if that's the case.
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Old 05-17-2014, 01:57 PM
  #157003  
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Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
Is it more or less safe than a 7 hour 2-man redeye in your opinion? Do we throw out all the other gains for one highly restricted thing?

I never liked the 2 man DUB/JFK trip. imho, for me... it borders on the safety issue. The most tired I have ever been on a DAL trip was that one. The only reason I do not avoid it is because it is an international trip that is good barter material. (That being said, I can't throw bags on one of them...)
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Old 05-17-2014, 01:59 PM
  #157004  
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So would a split duty period standup pay a 7:30 guarantee for the whole thing or 7:30 per split duty period for 15:00 total? I think the regional I used to work for paid close to 10:00 guarantee for a standup.
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Old 05-17-2014, 02:01 PM
  #157005  
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Originally Posted by Purple Drank
What is the LC response leash??? 3 hours?
Unsat
It has to be for it to comply with 117 rules. That and we can get 10AM rotations and SC on day 1 now. Unsat for sure.
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Old 05-17-2014, 02:04 PM
  #157006  
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Originally Posted by EdGrimley
Compare the contract of a couple decades ago against what we are left with now....there is no comparison.
Agreed. Twenty years ago we had no swap with the pot or other pilots, no PBS, no vacation swap or slide, no objective standard for allowing drops, etc. OTOH, we had a cap, partial month moveups, etc.

Rest requirements were the same as they are today, i.e., less than FAR 117 requires. Max duty limits were similar to FAR 117, some higher and some lower.

Originally Posted by EdGrimley
If there is going to be horse trading let's not trade a few dollars for something that ultimately reduces safety. Can we agree on that?
Absolutely!!
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Old 05-17-2014, 02:11 PM
  #157007  
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Originally Posted by XtremeF150
I might be ok with the CDO's if they CAN'T be given to those who bid around them. Make them an option for pilots to bid. Then those that can't get there needed sleep with this type flying can bid around them. Not really fair to allow them then realize guys don't necessarily like them and they fall on the junior guys.

Justifying these things by saying "well they are equally evil to other trips we already fly" is not a good idea. We need to be cleaning out problem areas not allowing more. I mean we already have RJ's so why not just allow more right. Or take out all the condo's in the wide body fleet. I mean some of our guys don't get that option right? Lets think about this

Also no one is addressing the staffing impact. I hope we take a hard look at allowing ourselves to become more efficient for the company.

The other stuff seems to sound good. Just hoping we aren't trading anything when we should be making outright gains.
No, what we need is some kind of guarantee that there will be no repercussions if a pilot gets one, and calls in fatigues for the second leg. I'd try one, but if I arrived at the airport doing touch and goes on the yoke (the thing you fly with for you Bus guys) and I say... I can't do this.. I am going back to the hotel... that I am not going to get called by the CPO, or anybody else. GUARANTEED. PERIOD... EVER.
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Old 05-17-2014, 02:13 PM
  #157008  
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Originally Posted by tsquare
I never liked the 2 man DUB/JFK trip. imho, for me... it borders on the safety issue. The most tired I have ever been on a DAL trip was that one. The only reason I do not avoid it is because it is an international trip that is good barter material. (That being said, I can't throw bags on one of them...)
DUB has been a 3 man trip since 1 Jan under FAR 117.
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Old 05-17-2014, 02:13 PM
  #157009  
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Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
And now UIO will pay 15:45.
And that somehow dampens the safety concern? This is really the crux of all the angst here, and I think it massively hypocritical of us to even discuss money trumping safety. But here we are.
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Old 05-17-2014, 02:13 PM
  #157010  
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disregard saw 80s post about chairmans letter...
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