TheManager

Here is the problem with your whole post.

This LOA could be voted in without Memrat by the MEC without the pilots having access to the details so as to make an evaluative decision.

The argument given by one of the Los Angeles reps for not having Memrat was that it would be logistically to difficult to and time consuming to explain the information behind months of nuanced negotiations. Furthermore, he stated that a pilot vote would likely be emotionally driven vs. thoughtful consideration of an analysis of the facts.

So, if the TA has been released to the LEC Reps, then why not the pilots? There could be several reasons why, none of them good.

In conclusion, ratifying a TA without Memrat that contains concessionary language, language that significantly alters OUR pilot working agreement, or contains conditional, restrictive or exclusionary language for ADG's, duty rigs and other pay events will have severe implications for our union representatives at all levels.

Herkflyr

I probably won't do them. But I ask you. We fly LIM-ATL every day, 7 hour allnighter, sun up for the last 3 hours--absolutely brutal. Is that "safe?"

Further, when I flew the 88, I found four consecutive days of early-birds to be completely fatiguing, but others liked them.

I'm not saying that these CDOs are good, or bad. I'm saying give it a little time. I can point out plenty of trips system-wide all all fleets that are more fatiguing than a CDO--many. Are they "unsafe?"

Scoop

Gloopy,

All valid concerns (I assume you are talking about reserves) but remember everyone has different concerns/wants etc.

We need to look at any agreement as a whole. Many folks will have their automatic "no" vote/opinion on a specific issue and that is fine. Hell I guess that could be an argument for ratification.

I am very skeptical on conceding on CDOs for numerous reasons but I want to see the big picture before coming to conclusions.

Scoop

Herkflyr

Wow..."severe implications." That sounds like a "stern" letter from MD to the company in its ferocity. What kinds of implications? Are you going to lead the charge?

Herkflyr

Sure we can fix it. We just have east bases (DTW, ATL) fly the LAX-GUA redeye in the middle of a three or four day trip. Then you will complain that "we" stole "your" flying.

DAL 88 Driver

FYI... I heard back from one of my reps and he confirmed that CDO's ARE a part of this TA. He says they are being restricted so as to have more than a couple of hours between the flights and that somehow makes them different than what some of us may have experienced at regional airlines. It sounded to me like he supports including the CDO's. Very disappointing.

The only other tidbit he mentioned was that they are eliminating the unpaid 30 hours layovers. That would be a good thing.

Mesabah

They are called SDTs (split duty trip) not CDOs(continous duty overnights) anymore.

They can be good provided that these requirements are met.

1. No more than 1 hour flight time legs.
2. At least 6 hours of rest.
3. A maximum of two legs per SDT (out, then back).
4. No charter or maintenance flights on a SDT.
5. SDTs can only be put on lines that are exclusive to SDTs.
6. No more than 3 SDTs in a row.
7. A minimum of 14 days off per month.

DAL 88 Driver

See my response to Scoop on the previous page. Bottom line: The company has the ability schedule the last flight in at night and the first flight out the next morning without doing those flights within a CDO. The redeyes fly all night because... well, that's what a redeye is. The market has always demanded redeyes. Somebody has to fly them. A CDO has nothing to do with market demand. It's just late night and early morning flights. The company can cover those flights (and currently does) without having a crew on duty all night. We should NOT be giving this up... it's a compromise in safety!

DAL 88 Driver

FAR 117 requires the opportunity to get 8 hours of sleep. It's based on widely accepted sleep science and the need to be properly rested before flying. How do you get "8 hours of uninterrupted sleep opportunity" with the requirements you listed?

TheManager

Not leading a charge.

However, if there is cram down containing concession, there is going to be a charge for stamps. And, someone in Tampa is gonna be like this:




Is that what you want Herk?