TeddyKGB

+7`7`7`7`7`7

FL370

Could not agree more... and I am a 70 hour a month guy.

Herkflyr

Exactly correct. Anyone who claims otherwise is self-deluding themselves (and this month I am at 72 hours--enjoying some time off, but that is me).

Basic economics states that no matter how much you have--including Bill Gates and Warren Buffett--you still want more. That doesn't necessarily mean more $$, but you still want "more" however that is defined.

No matter how much or little we make, there will always be guys who are happy to fly a GS. I am not editorializing at all here--just stating a fact.

ATL7ER

The one's I know who average 120/month not only don't complain about being stuck in the right seat, they say they have zero interest in the left seat. It would be a pay cut and QOL downgrade for them. Many of them gaming the system to get that kind of credit are either too junior to hold any CA position or can only hold domestic narrowbody reserve CA or bottom line holder. In my experience, the one's complaining about the right seat are getting 70-75 hours/month.

crewdawg52

Well, from my understanding, a lot of those listed were in our proposal for the last contract. How many made it?

In addition, just because you are against "1.5 over 80", what gives you the right to limit the amount someone can make IF HE OR SHE WISHES TO FLY AND EARN MORE? Every person has a reason, be it kids approaching/ in college, new car, medical bills, taking care of family members, mx on the house, savings, etc.

Many here spout off about the "time value of money", stagnation, etc. Guess what, this is one way for those who are "stagnated" or junior to make up some of that "time value of money" which is lost due to the lack of upgrades. Oh, and for green slips, usually it's the same senior individuals who get them.

I will campaign FOR1.5 over 80 as hard as I can, because NO ONE has the right to tell me how much I can fly and earn (unless of course, it's defined by FAR's)

Sorry for the rant. Off soap box......

shiznit

I can see that. I didn't know that OOBWS was ahead of LCRES in the pre-bankruptcy days. I'm am in favor of pre-BK rules retuning!

Still and always against 1.5 over anything. Don't reward whoring. Make straight pay higher for the original line of time to equal the disparity.

ATL7ER

It wasn't always "whoring" that produced premium pay at nwa. It was 1.5x for anything that took your credit over 80...vacation,training, flying your 80 hour month and having 2 or 3 hours overage due to delays/deicing, having a 79 hour month and swapping a trip for one on the same days that was worth 2 hours more time etc.. Plus, no wondering up to the last day if any greenslips will be awarded and, if so, if you will be senior enough to get it AND be available AND abe to get there at that last minute etc.,

UGBSM

You guys aren't looking at this from the company perspective. Delta isn't that interested in trying to get you to bid or pickup to fly over 80 hours. Maybe they were at Northwest, but here at Delta, not so much. They want to incentivize you to fly that last minute garbage trip they need to cover.

1.5 doesn't cut it.

They tried that before here at Delta. Reduced greenslips to 1.5 and then found out most pilots didn't want to give up their days off for that. The company gladly went back to 2.0 greenslips. It's the proper incentive to get trips covered.

And limiting you to one greenslip until everyone in category has had a chance for one addresses your spread the wealth issue.

shiznit

I don't want someone's raise for "extra flying" to come at the expense of everyone else's raise for my regular flying. The money we will divvy up into the contract is finite, and massively disproportionate raises for pilots who will be delaying the advancement of other pilots is not in our collective best interest. Sometimes we have to protect ourselves from ourselves.

We did get an ADG that counts toward reserves, days off for reserves increased, training pay went up, vacation pay went up, computer training increased from 1:3 to 1:2. Pay rates increased 20% in 3 years, DC upped 1%, the SOT for RAW for SC days, which is a step towards credit.

So yes, many of those things are getting accomplished, and I'd like to see the trajectory continued.

LeineLodge

Great idea!!! Let's get rid of the ALV+15 limit while we're at it and let everyone fly to the FAR's!

Except for those benefiting from it, most pilots did not like Trip Parking. What you're proposing would be far more detrimental than that, or any of the other work rules that have gone bye-bye over the years. I MIGHT be able to get behind 1.5 over 80 (I was fnwa btw, as I assume you are on the 744) but it would have to come with a cap - not limited solely by FAR's. 80 is just too high of a premium trigger, and would incentivize far too many of us to help Delta reduce our headcount.

The point is, there is a balance to be struck, and we will naturally all have our personal opinions on it. After the stagnation of the past decade+ I have little interest in anything that will further reduce Delta's staffing requirements.

The GS system definitely favors seniority in category, but as others have mentioned on here, it is more affected by your bidding strategy. The senior guys get more GS's because they are more likely to be OFF when GS's are flowing. All other things equal, the junior guy has to get his G#1 before the senior guy gets G#2.

If a pilot chooses not to chase the bigger payrate for better seniority in-category, he benefits by having better bidding options and the ability to set himself up for more GS's. He also has the option to bid up a category for the higher payrate, but probably fewer pay hours in a given year... If you say we shouldn't limit ourselves at all, then option #2 gets pushed back even further. IMO, after seeing both ways of doing things, I don't want to go back to 1.5 over 80. The current system seems to un-stovepipe things a little bit more, creating more options for guys vertically throughout the list.

Nobody is telling you how much you can make. I'd argue that if you live in base and know how to game the system you could make more as a senior NB FO rather than sitting wherever you do on the whale. We have 73NB's making more than the A's they fly with. There are plenty of ways to skin the cat...