Originally Posted by sailingfun

I have a hard time understanding how we sold scope back then, to sell something you generally have to own it. Our scope was essentially zero until the 91 contract. There was nothing to sell. In fact as pointed out RA was threatening to move all aircraft smaller then a 757 to ASA and Comair and under the current scope he could have done it. We were able in the 91 agreement to finally get some scope. We would fly all jets over 70 seats. No limits below that on jets or on turboprops of any size.

Originally Posted by forgot to bid

Furloughs were back to early 2000 correct? The CRJ was already here long before that right?

Originally Posted by Jughead

It's been a long time, so I'm calling on a lot of gray cells to cooperate, but I flew the BAe-146 at ASA in 1995-96, which was configured with 88 seats (originally 108 seats). I took a lot of grief from my Delta "brothers" in my Reserve unit because I was flying the scope-liner (yes, it was all my fault).

Originally Posted by dalad

ASA was never acquiring 737 or DC-9 aircraft. The only thing I ever heard was Comair buying DC-9 or 737 aircraft in the mid 90's. We had scope in the 1996 contract that would have prevented any of that. I believe Comair was attempting to acquire the aircraft for a "charter" operation. That was almost 20 years ago so I may be wrong. The only "large" aircraft allowed in the 1996 contract were the BAE-146's and ATR-72's that ASA already had acquired.

Originally Posted by dalad

Nope, we were hiring 100 a month in early 2000. We had announced a halt in hiring just prior to 9/11 as the economy was starting to soften. Furloughs didn't start until early 2012 if I recall. There were contractual limitations, maybe some of the victims of "Force Manure" can enlighten us. I just flew with a 2001 hire yesterday.

Originally Posted by sailingfun

The flaw in your plan and what bucket fails to recognize is that DALPA does not maintain or control the seniority list. That is strictly a company function. All we could have done was asked the company to merge Northwest and Delta.

Originally Posted by sailingfun

I have a hard time understanding how we sold scope back then, to sell something you generally have to own it. Our scope was essentially zero until the 91 contract. There was nothing to sell. In fact as pointed out RA was threatening to move all aircraft smaller then a 757 to ASA and Comair and under the current scope he could have done it. We were able in the 91 agreement to finally get some scope. We would fly all jets over 70 seats. No limits below that on jets or on turboprops of any size.
In the 2001 contract where we gave up scope pay was set in stone literally years before with the agreements on the 737NG, 764 and 777 and the subsequent UAL contract. In fact pay was never really an issue and management and DALPA differed very little on what the pay rates were going to be. The only pay issue was a very short lived table position to band pay rates by management. Scope was the last thing settled in the contract long after pay rates were already sent to the printers.

Originally Posted by Timbo

I've been grappling with this issue since my first flying job at 19.

WHO decides what we are worth?

Last time I checked, nobody in the CEO seat has an ATP. They cannot do our job. Nobody can do our jobs, unless they have the license and the quals. ALPA should be able to shut it down any time they don't like what the CEO is cooking. But there are some of us who would cross a picket line, obviously.

Look at CAL in 1983. I got front row seats at that one, I could have scabbed and been a 24yr. old 727 Capt. like a few of the A-holes I was flying cancelled checks with did. But I understood what they were fighting for, and I wanted their pilots to win. Then I got to see it agian, with Eastern in MIA.

I knew some dirtbags who crossed the CAL line, and I had a lot of Eastern friends who lost everything.

So when is ALPA going to play the SOS card? Without that, we are all fkd, as we saw after 9-11 and the loss of all ALPA Pensions, pay cuts, etc. Nobody at National wants to get their hands dirty.

They're gettin' paid. They've got a retirement.

Or maybe they know Congress would sell our jobs to Emirates/Quatar/Etihad/China in a NY minute, if we make a stink and ask for "Too Much".

If I were king, there'd be a National Contract, with a floor for all payrates, benefits, etc. No more whipsawing and outsourcing to the lowest bidders.

Originally Posted by forgot to bid

but the furloughs were 2000-2001 hires correct?

Originally Posted by dalad

Jughead you are correct.