Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
02-07-2014, 06:02 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: A320 Left seat
Posts: 2,591
Dude the union was pushing BIG hiring push in the fall of 2012 during the C12 roadshows and in the lounges. It is a fact that it didn't happen the way they were selling it. The union can't make that promise but they certainly played the whole "I have inside information" inferring this.
I agree, they may not have said it specifically, but from what I remember, they were suggesting that if we ratify the contract, we would be hiring by the end of the year and everything would start moving upwards....oh and don't worry about the 3rd and 4th year 3% pay raises, another merger or the new FTDT regs are going to give us the leverage to negotiate a new contract WAY before those pay raises take effect.
I felt like a chump then, I felt like a chump Jan 1, 2014, and I will feel like a used prom date on Jan 1, 2015 when my date stops returning my calls.
We have been used, in the name of proactive engagement, and our phone calls are already being ignored. They are making billions and we have served our purpose through sacrifice...now we are going to have to fight, tooth and nail, for every future gains we achieve.
E
02-07-2014, 06:30 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,238
What everyone else said. Just a quick recap:
PB days in the bank can be used in the current calendar year with the concurrence of the pilot and the company -> basically if there is adequate RSV coverage (Required > Available) then you can place a PB day anywhere you want.
If you don't use your PB days by the end of the calendar year, they automatically become Supplemental vacation days, which you can attach to your awarded weeks during annual vacation bidding in January/February next year. The rules for these are the same as for VAC days that you buy from the Bank. This is the CHEAPEST way (for the company) for you to "redeem" your PB days, as they are worth the value of a vacation day (3:45.) There are a couple of reasons you might want to let them roll over, but generally it's best to use them in a month when you are a REG pilot.
To use a PB day, go to iCrew -> PCS -> Leave Requests -> Payback Days
As mentioned by several others, the most EXPENSIVE way (for the company) for you to "redeem" a PB day is to use it to drop a high value 1-day trip. You are then paid the value of that trip, but in no case would it be less than 5:15. A PCS ninja with some (good) seniority might be able to use a PB day to drop a dinner-and-a-movie trip worth 9-ish hours <--- Much better than letting it roll over as a VAC day.
Other nice uses for PB days are to break up RSV days of availability. A RSV ninja might be inclined to place a PB day on day 3 of 5 (for example) leaving him with a 2 on, 1 off, 2 on stretch where he makes himself less available for assignment to a trip, and will only get at the most a 2-day. This works really nicely in a fat category in a slow month. You can basically turn 1 PB day into a week off...This works the best when guys are ho-ing for 1 and 2-day WS's, leaving the RSV guy at home when he gets down below 3 days of availability <----This probably won't be happening much now that we've "right-sized" our staffing over the past year.
Similar to the above, RSV guys in international categories could use this to make themselves mostly unavailable by breaking their RSV days into chunks just short of the shortest trip that their category flies.
This is possible for RSV pilots because PCS doesn't require any of the usual buffers/days of availability requirements that other X-day movements do.
Each payback day for a RSV pilot is worth the pro-rated portion of the ALV so it's not as valuable as it would be for a REG pilot, but still better than letting it roll as a VAC day @ 3:45/PB.
Still others will save them for a month when they think rolling thunder might be a possibility. It's a bit of a crapshoot, but this might be the most valuable way to use a PB day, since it opens your schedule up to be available for GS's.
Lots of ways to play it. I generally refrain from pointing any of this stuff out if a guy is senior to me, so consider this my public service announcement for the year
PB days in the bank can be used in the current calendar year with the concurrence of the pilot and the company -> basically if there is adequate RSV coverage (Required > Available) then you can place a PB day anywhere you want.
If you don't use your PB days by the end of the calendar year, they automatically become Supplemental vacation days, which you can attach to your awarded weeks during annual vacation bidding in January/February next year. The rules for these are the same as for VAC days that you buy from the Bank. This is the CHEAPEST way (for the company) for you to "redeem" your PB days, as they are worth the value of a vacation day (3:45.) There are a couple of reasons you might want to let them roll over, but generally it's best to use them in a month when you are a REG pilot.
To use a PB day, go to iCrew -> PCS -> Leave Requests -> Payback Days
As mentioned by several others, the most EXPENSIVE way (for the company) for you to "redeem" a PB day is to use it to drop a high value 1-day trip. You are then paid the value of that trip, but in no case would it be less than 5:15. A PCS ninja with some (good) seniority might be able to use a PB day to drop a dinner-and-a-movie trip worth 9-ish hours <--- Much better than letting it roll over as a VAC day.
Other nice uses for PB days are to break up RSV days of availability. A RSV ninja might be inclined to place a PB day on day 3 of 5 (for example) leaving him with a 2 on, 1 off, 2 on stretch where he makes himself less available for assignment to a trip, and will only get at the most a 2-day. This works really nicely in a fat category in a slow month. You can basically turn 1 PB day into a week off...This works the best when guys are ho-ing for 1 and 2-day WS's, leaving the RSV guy at home when he gets down below 3 days of availability <----This probably won't be happening much now that we've "right-sized" our staffing over the past year.
Similar to the above, RSV guys in international categories could use this to make themselves mostly unavailable by breaking their RSV days into chunks just short of the shortest trip that their category flies.
This is possible for RSV pilots because PCS doesn't require any of the usual buffers/days of availability requirements that other X-day movements do.
Each payback day for a RSV pilot is worth the pro-rated portion of the ALV so it's not as valuable as it would be for a REG pilot, but still better than letting it roll as a VAC day @ 3:45/PB.
Still others will save them for a month when they think rolling thunder might be a possibility. It's a bit of a crapshoot, but this might be the most valuable way to use a PB day, since it opens your schedule up to be available for GS's.
Lots of ways to play it. I generally refrain from pointing any of this stuff out if a guy is senior to me, so consider this my public service announcement for the year
02-08-2014, 05:36 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,576
Looks like in the new Lego movie they used a senior flight attendant for inspiration for a character in the opening scene
02-08-2014, 05:50 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: maddoggy dog
Posts: 1,026
Everything is awesome. Everything is totally cool...
I think I enjoyed the movie more than most of the kids! Lol. Favorite Lego is the blue spaceman. I always built rockets.
02-08-2014, 06:19 AM
looking for underboob
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: NYC 7ER LCA
Posts: 902
Is the movie ok for a 4 year old girl? or will she just prevent me from enjoying the movie?
My 7 year old has been dying to see it
02-08-2014, 06:52 AM
Doesn't Get Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,598
I agree, they may not have said it specifically, but from what I remember, they were suggesting that if we ratify the contract, we would be hiring by the end of the year and everything would start moving upwards....oh and don't worry about the 3rd and 4th year 3% pay raises, another merger or the new FTDT regs are going to give us the leverage to negotiate a new contract WAY before those pay raises take effect.
02-08-2014, 07:30 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
That is a perfect cliff version of the ALPA roadshows to sell us C2012. I'm sure that is what the company told them and the believed it so I guess we can only blame ourselves for taking the bait second hand. I guess that's what we should expect when we send in the negotiators that got a weekend crash course vs. professional negotiators for the largest airline in the world.
But for the sake of argument, why do you think that a "professional negotiator" who has zero skin in the game (he is going to get paid regardless of the outcome) will have any idea the requirements and pitfalls of what it is like to be an airline pilot? What is it about this particular phrase or concept... "professional negotiator" that makes you and others think that we will get a better deal? How are they going to know what it is that we need? How will they know what we are willing to accept? What if they have to make a decision in the room on the fly? How will they do that? And lastly but most importantly, who is to blame if they make a professional decision, and YOU are not happy with that decision? What is your recourse. Remember, his response is probably going to be "too bad, so sad, my check better clear"....
Stupid, stupid charges you level.
02-08-2014, 07:43 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: A-320/A
Posts: 588
Perhaps exhibit "A" might be C2012? I'm just sayin'….
02-08-2014, 07:45 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: right for a long, long time
Posts: 2,642
That is a perfect cliff version of the ALPA roadshows to sell us C2012. I'm sure that is what the company told them and the believed it so I guess we can only blame ourselves for taking the bait second hand. I guess that's what we should expect when we send in the negotiators that got a weekend crash course vs. professional negotiators for the largest airline in the world.
Couple things. Our MEC elected pilot negotiators usually have lots of overlap to prevent a knowledge drain year in and year out. It's way more than a crash course, and the other background skills and knowledge are much more suited to airline contracts than "Joe lawyer negotiator." We have the top RLA labor negotiating firm on retainer and never go into a meeting without attorneys present.
The Comapy doesn't have professional negotiators. Think Steve D., Tim H. Glen H., J. Graham, with a lawyer from DL corporate, rarely but on occasion Glen C.
None of those people are professional negotiators, save "maybe" their labor lawyer, but even he doesn't have the experience in RLA/pilot contracts that Cohen, Weiss, and Simon lawyers have amassed.
BTW, D-ALPA hired an outside law firm to do some negotiations work during C2K and were fired well before the end game because they were unable to grasp the complexities of the PWA. They were useless to the negotiating effort. It was a waste of our dues dollars, and made that last dues refund check even smaller.
Your yes or no vote is fine either way by me, it wasn't an easy call (I changed my vote 3 times). But it's disingenuous to say it was "sold" with hiring promises or that our negotiators are subpar.
02-08-2014, 07:49 AM
Banned
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Posts: 474
That is a perfect cliff version of the ALPA roadshows to sell us C2012. I'm sure that is what the company told them and the believed it so I guess we can only blame ourselves for taking the bait second hand. I guess that's what we should expect when we send in the negotiators that got a weekend crash course vs. professional negotiators for the largest airline in the world.
As for professional negotiators, as ALPA pilots we use professional negotiators with decades of experience negotiating pilot contracts. These negotiators are the best in the industry and work side by side with our elected negotiating committee and our expanded negotiating team.
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