capncrunch

Delta will become a general contractor that subs all the work and operates in name only. No pilots, no planes, no problems.

Kargo

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadHead
Seriously??? You guys had to crap in like you were in prison???

That was under Donald Nyrop (ret. 78') but it was true.


You guys are forgetting the story about Mr. Nyrop wanting to take the flags off the airplanes to save weight/fuel. I'm pretty sure this is a fairly common airline story though.

Sink r8

I agree: it's a fine line.

I don't know for a fact that NW had much of a presence in Europe before the agreement, so it would be useful to start with a before/after comparison before making such a conclusion. Same is true for Alaska. Seems to me we squandered the West Coast all by ourselves, by coughing up the Western stuff.

All code-share and JV agreements are designed to do the same job with less resources, or more with existing resources. They're definitely not designed to generate pilot jobs. The flip side of this is that we've seen that we're remarkably competitive in this industry, and most attempts to capture market share only kill yields, not competitors. Therefore, it seems to me the company can make more by eliminating competition through agreement than by trying to overpower it. Assuming you can strike agreements that preserve the ratios of flying currently in place, and restrict the ability to grow one side exlusively, then you have a means to reduce shrinkage, probably maintain existing flying, and share the growth. There may be a happy medium there.

It's a bitter pill to swallow that we're sharing future flying with AF/KLM, and a lot sweeter to imagine that we would have conquered the Atlantic oursleves without any help. If only that were true...

Ironically, I hear the AF-KLM pilots are just as scared of us as we are of them. Turns out we're the low-cost producer across the Atlantic. I wonder if the same isn't true with the Pacific, and JAL.

DAL4EVER

Potentially a good move. Make the competition move assets that are in short supply to shore up a vulnerability that we had no intention of exploiting. Currently the Oneworld group has the worst balance sheet of all of the partnerships. BA, JAL, Quantas and AMR are all hurting.

Of course, AMR is predatory at all costs and will actively defend their turf. They are probably a little more than peeved over the JFK/JAL overtures and that is why you saw yesterdays expansion to shore up their hubs. Also, there is talk of them questioning UAL's solvency which is why they are adding the ORD flying. Perhaps this will tie up AMR's hands with JAL and we would make a bid for certain UAL assets should that be an issue or get help on JFK.

Sink r8

Can you expand?

You mean AMR's JFK assets? Seems plausible even if their announcement yesterday seems to suggest the opposite. The fact they've added destinations doesn't mean they'll using their JFK terminal to capacity anytime soon. Just because it looks like they got retaliatory yesterday, doesn't mean we can't come to an understanding that would include proper Haneda access, etc.

AAflyer

From SEC....
"AMR expects that approximately $890 million of the Advance Purchase proceeds will be accounted for as a loan from Citibank under Accounting Standards Codification Topic 470, with the remaining $110 million related to certain other commitments with respect to the co-branding relationship and recorded as Deferred Revenue in Other Liabilities. The loan was determined using an effective interest rate of 8.3% and will be amortized under the interest method with imputed interest included in interest expense. The Deferred Revenue will be amortized straight line over the life of the agreement."


AA

Ferd149

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upndsky

From today's ATW Daily News:

"Olympic Air, the new name of the privatized and restructured Olympic Airlines, officially will begin flying on Oct. 1 with 21 aircraft, increasing shortly to 32 (16 A319s/A320s, 10 Q400s, five Dash 8-100s and one ATR 42), according to press reports. Marfin Investment Group bought the carrier last spring (ATWOnline, March 25), and executives said yesterday that Olympic has signed a codeshare agreement with Delta Air Lines with a view toward joining SkyTeam eventually, according to Reuters. CEO Andreas Vgenopoulos said the new Olympic will operate 65% of the old airline's schedule. At June's Paris Air Show, Marfin signed a firm order for eight Q400s, including five NextGen models, plus eight options. The company launched full-scale ground handling operations at 39 Greek airports on June 30."

So it looks like the largest thing they'll be flying is the A320. If that's the case, our ATH route seems secure for now.

KC10 FATboy

Whenever I hear the word Codeshare, I cringe. But I guess this is a good thing.

acl65pilot

I do not disagree. Code shares and JV's are good to a point just like DCI. We are getting to the point where this type of deal may be going too far.